Lack of End Game Content

[Hank_Hotspur]

I'm fine with this being an mmo I let my sub lapse during a lull of content. All other mmos pretend to have something always happening but that usually means logging in to do the same dailies every day or standing in your garrison all the time.

[Klb600]

I believe the 1% statistic is pulled out from Ultimate clears. This particular Reddit post was from last fall, but it showed that worldwide the number was less that 1% of all active characters: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_uwu_numbers/

I'm sure the number has gone up since then but for a long time that was the hardest content in the game, and very few people cleared it.

Ok I would like too be clear on this. Are the people asking for more endgame progression in the vain of Ultimate? Because ultimate offers nothing but boasting rights. What people seem to be mentioning here are more endgame progression in the form of progression + reward. Scott zone mentioned more bosses or endgame raids that changes the formula here, hell the TC mentioned new forms of endgame progression that broke the stale formula, he said nothing about the difficulty, hell he said he hadn't even touched ultimate. I asked for a change in the endgame formula/more of it and more open world endgame content, not even mentioning difficulty and was still shot down..

[Mikhaill]

Except the ones that are bored are a 1% group that blows through content...

Like, if you don't think they should waste development time on things nobody does (and let's me honest, they spend far, far less time on things like gold saucer or even crafting than on everything that goes into making raid content and other endgame style content like BA)- then shouldn't you be complaining about how much time they spend on making all the savage, ultimates, etc...?

You've sort of hit the nail on the head though- because that challenge mode is something only 1% of players do, they aren't going to go all in on it like WoW does. They'd be more likely to put more time into it if far more people did it, but from the sounds of it even the intended audience only does it once then is bored.

I was actually talking about the useless stuff that is in the Golden Saucer such as Mahjong, Verminion and other stuff which is the %.1 I was talking about.
Not savage, because that is part of end-game.
Eureka/Diadem/Pagos whatever you wanna call it, is also a mess and should just be tossed all together.

[Klb600]

Instead of focusing on the actual number, how about accepting the reality that the people who would consume the content you you're asking for are a very, very small portion of the community. When someone refers to "the 1% who would enjoy it", they're referencing what happened with the Sunwell raid in WoW's Burning Crusade. A monumental amount of time was devoted to creating that raid, but only about 1% (and this is according to Blizzard themselves) ever actually downed the final boss. This is not a good way to utilize resources.
And I'm sure you're aware of this already, but only the devs and number crunchers at SE know actual numbers.

As for the number of people asking for more content, you have to consider several factors. What content are they asking for? How many are asking each specific content type? How many that are asking for one type are also asking for another that someone else is asking for? And much more beyond.
In regards to PF, that's a tiny fraction of the overall number of players.

You know no one has the info you're asking for. Because SE does not share it. So asking for it can only be seen as an attempt to dismiss the points being made.

No, because the actual numbers are very important. If you are going to dismiss people with 1% when in fact you could be referencing 30%. if possibly 30% then that is a very large share of the capital. too condense it down to "1%" is a straight up lie with no further argument needed. So yes, I would like the specific number so people can stop throwing around factually incorrect data.

So asking for it can only be seen as an attempt to dismiss the points being made.


like how people are condensing it down to "1%" to dismiss the points of the opposition?

[grinkdaboy]

I would disagree - WoW mythics kept a LOT of end game players busy and entertained since they were almost "limitless". Each time they felt a little different with the randomised modifiers and drops.

mythics were one of the reasons i dropped wow. maybe if there were more 'hit' dungeons than 'misses' and you didn't have to pray you actually got a reward for the effort you put in clearing on or ahead of time

and of course if you rush to the end, not taking in the story, not doing any world content, or anything like that, you're probably not going to get a whole lot out of xiv. level a crafter and make some serious sciarole selling food and pots to raiders or better yet supplying your own static

[CazzT]

No, because the actual numbers are very important. If you are going to dismiss people with 1% when in fact you could be referencing 30%. if possibly 30% then that is a very large share of the capital. too condense it down to "1%" is a straight up lie with no further argument needed. So yes, I would like the specific number so people can stop throwing around factually incorrect data.

exactly like how these people are condensing it down to "1%" to dismiss others.

You will never get the specific number unless you get a job at SE working in specific departments or SE gives us some numbers.
No one is dismissing the calls for more content. People are pointing out that adding content for a small group is not good business when you could make content that the majority will enjoy. That's not being dismissive, that's stating reality.

[Hawklaser]

Except the ones that are bored are a 1% group that blows through content...

Like, if you don't think they should waste development time on things nobody does (and let's me honest, they spend far, far less time on things like gold saucer or even crafting than on everything that goes into making raid content and other endgame style content like BA)- then shouldn't you be complaining about how much time they spend on making all the savage, ultimates, etc...?

You've sort of hit the nail on the head though- because that challenge mode is something only 1% of players do, they aren't going to go all in on it like WoW does. They'd be more likely to put more time into it if far more people did it, but from the sounds of it even the intended audience only does it once then is bored.

Since you want to go on this route of the once and done... Outside of your favorite Mount, how often do you use each of every single mount you have collected? Outside of your favorite Minion, how often do you use each and every singe minion you have collected? Outside of your favorite glamour set, how often do you use other glamours on a regular basis? How often do you play all of the Gold Saucer mini games outside of your favorites and for the challenge log completion? How often do you use a title other than your favorite? How often do you redesign your house, if you happen to be one of the lucky ones to have one?


Also part of the reason less time gets spent on things like mounts, minions and the like is scale. Just to keep it simple, going to go with a minion for this example. Realistically, all a minion is a cuter version of a mob, or some other model with a very basic follow script. It takes some work by the art team to put together the 3d model and give it the correct lighting meshes, maybe some light AI adjustments by the programmers to add a little personality, and ensure it works with the terrain around it. And it is pretty much done. Now lets look at a basic boss encounter. First there is building the AI script and tuning the boss stats. Then there is also the 3d modeling and lighting for the boss itself, as well as the arena. Then testing everything together to make sure all the parts work together correctly when players are fighting it and all actions done by it are applied to players correctly, and its actions are applied to players correctly. Then there is the actual play testing phases to ensure it is feasible for the intended content level. That is all for one boss. This compounds for an entire dungeon/raid.

This all still comes back to a universal problem all content creators face. It takes more time to create content than it does to consume it. The odd thing though, is gamers are just a little more vocal about it not being produced fast enough for them. TV, Movies, and literature, people are often more content to wait out the production cycle. So until a way is found to slow down gamers consumption of content in an ethical and enjoyable way, the lack of challenging end game level content will be a perpetual problem in persistent theme park MMO game.

[Klb600]

You will never get the specific number unless you get a job at SE working in specific departments or SE gives us some numbers.
No one is dismissing the calls for more content. People are pointing out that adding content for a small group is not good business when you could make content that the majority will enjoy. That's not being dismissive, that's stating reality.

stating "1%" with no real data is not reality, no matter how you look at it. like I stated you don't know how large that share is, yet you make baseless assumption. even if its not 50:50, when possibly 20-30% is a large share, and are still owed a return. So yes they still have a voice in this

[Catwho]

Ok I would like too be clear on this. Are the people asking for more endgame progression in the vain of Ultimate? Because ultimate offers nothing but boasting rights. What people seem to be mentioning here are more endgame progression in the form of progression + reward. Scott zone mentioned more bosses or endgame raids that changes the formula here, hell the TC mentioned new forms of endgame progression that broke the stale formula, he said nothing about the difficulty, hell he said he hadn't even touched ultimate. I asked for a change in the endgame formula/more of it and more open world endgame content, not even mentioning difficulty and was still shot down..

Unless you specify what you want, people are going to jump to the worst conclusion.

I say this as someone who got every Anemos weapon and got so burnt out on it I didn't even go into Pagos until Hydatos came out, because the "progression" aspect of it was not enough to make up for how much I loathed that place. I'm still mired in Pyros and now I wonder if I'll ever have the chance to finish the story there....

Hunts are arguably part of open world progression (since that's how you can upgrade tome gear eventually) but those are not considered "endgame" by many. Maps and the portals to the Aquapolis and Uznair were a pretty big hit, and I'm certain we'll get a version of those for 5.0 and level 80 in a future patch, but again, those are apparently not considered "endgame."

I won't disagree, midcore endgame content has always been this game's weakest space. There's a big beautiful open world and it'd be nice if we could do things besides quests, hunting, fishing, gathering, farming, and maps out in it. But.... what?

[ForteNightshade]

Yeah, because rebalancing already existing assets is a matter of minute, why don't they just push the difficulty slider up, invent reward from nothing and release it ?! As if the same dungeon but with more damage is suddenly making it fun and exciting.

Did I say it were a matter of minutes? Considering Mythic+ does precisely that; scale up the damage. Yes, that can be "fun and exciting." Of course they do expand on that further with modifiers, CC and additional mob spawns to surprise players. But that's all things FFXIV already does. They just haven't implemented into a higher scale dungeon yet. It isn't like people demanded this yesterday and expect it for 5.1. It's been a constant request spanning years now to make harder four man content and more meaningful achievements. Instead, they opted to make things like LoV and Blue Mage. Why does criticise this lead to yet another extreme sided argument? No one is saying new content can be done within a single patch. What they're asking for is more focus be put on something like this to increase the end game content we have that's somewhat challenging.

Lol it's not an extreme. It's literally Yoshi P's words. You know, the director and producer? This is his philosophy.

Please read the context of my reply. The person I quoted insinuated adding any more additional content would turn FFXIV into a job. How is a fifth raid boss making the game suddenly more daunting? I mean, we technically had one with Omega-M/F. The only issue is they were a door boss without rewards.

Ok I would like too be clear on this. Are the people asking for more endgame progression in the vain of Ultimate? Because ultimate offers nothing but boasting rights. What people seem to be mentioning here are more endgame progression in the form of progression + reward. Scott zone mentioned more bosses or endgame raids that changes the formula here, hell the TC mentioned new forms of endgame progression that broke the stale formula, he said nothing about the difficulty, hell he said he hadn't even touched ultimate. I asked for a change in the endgame formula/more of it and more open world endgame content, not even mentioning difficulty and was still shot down..

No, they are. I'm even someone who has cleared Ultimate. I want more end game content that's challenging enough to keep me engaged but on a lighter scale so I can approach it more leisurely. While I love Ultimate, it's a monumental undertaking you need to be heavily prepared for. Which is why I still enjoy more casual things, even dungeons. Unfortunately, they get a little dull when there's almost no threat of failure. Since I've mentioned Mythic+, I'd say 24 man difficulty is a nice place to shoot for and see how it fares. Not too difficult but enough to slap you around if you're not paying attention.