Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[Misutoraru]

Job DPS is determined by raid utility and difficulty. SMN and Nin needs to be brought up badly. As for the rest, don't be surprised that your RDM isn't doing SAM level DPS when it's the easiest job in the game.

I have to agree and disagree
Raid utility yes
Difficulty no
If you mean difficult by melee vs range and instant vs cast, then yes
But if you mean rotation then no. If a job with more complex rotation get more dps compare to simplier rotation job, a skilled player will always get more dps out from the complex job. Balance between job should never take rotation complexity in, but melee vs range vs cast I do agree there have to be some difference because the chance of attacking do make a difference.

[Jaywalker]

I played a lot of blm during deltascape and sigmascape and I was pretty good at it. I know how blm works and all its limitations.

The point of my post is that even after attributing the damage gained from using utility skills to the person that cast them, blm still does 1000 DPS more than classes with utility.

I do think it's alright personally given pure DPS class, but I get how you'd feel that way.

I'd rather see more perks to other classes than a nerf, so while I might disagree just wanna say it's respectfully disagree.

[Myon88]

You dont want to balance around rdps specifically tho you need to take it into an account, for instance nin was behind dragoon by 1.5 ish and their TA didnt even make up the difference.

You have things the wrong way around. Rdps is exactly the thing you want to balance jobs around, while pdps is the thing you should be ignoring when looking at job balance. If a blm does 15k when a dancer partners him, and that dancer is doing 9k, it's obviously a skewed comparison because some of the work done by the dancer is going to the blm instead. When you look at rdps you're attributing things correctly to the source of that damage, so that blm would look more like 13.5k, and the dancer would be at 10.5k or something.

As for wanting the same rdps... you dont want that. Thatll make any dps utility redundant, as dps utilities are meant to be worked with (not apply and forget about it like pugs do) why have extra work for the same damage? You want pdps to change according to utility, but depending on that utility needs to scale according to its purpose.

No, that's exactly what you want. In an ideal case, when looking at the jobs sorted by rdps every job should have a bar exactly the same length as each other. It's the opposite in fact, the support jobs are doing extra work for less damage, while the selfish jobs can just do the same thing they always do in every party while also contributing the most damage.

When selfish jobs like blm are still on top even when you look at things from an rdps standpoint, that should tell you that something is seriously wrong with the balance between the selfish and support oriented jobs. If a dancer does not add as much value to the group as another blm, why would you not just bring 2 blm's instead of a blm and a dancer instead? It must feel horrible being a dancer outside of raids too, in light parties you only buff 3 other people so your rdps is reduced while a blm is only reliant on themselves, let alone solo content in the open world. Might as well just play blm and be the king of the game everywhere.

We are going to reach the point soon where people realize bringing another melee or blm is better than having any of the ranged in the party at all. Even the 1% mainstat buff you get for bringing a ranged, or the LB penalty won't be enough to outweigh the sheer gains.

[HyoMinPark]

The fact SAM is the easiest melee job but remained the top melee dps says it all.

While I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your post as a whole, SAM is not the top melee. It wasn’t before MNK was buffed, and it’s not now. It’s actually doing less in total rDPS than it should be doing considering it doesn’t have any utility (both DRG and MNK beat it in rDPS at the 95th percentile for All Bosses). In aDPS, it’s still below MNK at the 95th percentile by about 400 when you look at the same percentile.


Honestly, I’m seeing the discrepancies between MNK and the other jobs, and I think it could be brought down a bit. I also think that SAM needs a buff—enough so that its rDPS is more or less equal to both MNK and DRG, perhaps even slightly ahead (but not by a significant margin) because it has no utility to bring the raid. I think something need to be done with NIN, because there is no competition between it and DRG/MNK right now. SMN and RDM need to be brought up so that they are closer to BLM. The difference is too large right now. And I really wish the developers would let go of raise being a utility—at a certain point, it stops being a utility that one can get rDPS gains to make up for.

While the physical ranged are all balanced within one another (for the first time in probably forever, they’re relatively close to one another, and picking either of the three isn’t a hinderance to your party), depending on 5.08 changes to NIN and potentially SAM, they may need to be buffed as well. Nothing too substantial, but I could see the role as a whole needing a buff down the line. How much of a buff will be determined probably by what 5.08 brings.

[Siete]

Classes are good just like this.
If anything, bring up the other classes just a little but not too much.
Or review the party benefits NIN and SMN give, they're quite bad.

[HyoMinPark]

Classes are good just like this.
If anything, bring up the other classes just a little but not too much.
Or review the party benefits NIN and SMN give, they're quite bad.

Hard disagree on jobs being fine right now. SAM isn’t fine when MNK brings ~800 more rDPS at the 95th percentile than a job that doesn’t have any party utility (and this isn’t even addressing the difference between MNK/DRG/SAM against NIN, which is 1,388/1,005/595, respectfully). Same with BLM and SMN: the difference is even larger between them, with it being over 1,100 rDPS at the 95th percentile for All Bosses. BLM is 1,386 rDPS above RDM.

There needs to be some adjustments made.

[Siete]

Hard disagree on jobs being fine right now. SAM isn’t fine when MNK brings ~800 more rDPS at the 95th percentile than a job that doesn’t have any party utility (and this isn’t even addressing the difference between MNK/DRG/SAM against NIN, which is 1,388/1,005/595, respectfully). Same with BLM and SMN: the difference is even larger between them, with it being over 1,100 rDPS at the 95th percentile for All Bosses. BLM is 1,386 rDPS above RDM.

There needs to be some adjustments made.

MNK is as easy to play as SAM tho?
NIN is ded tho.

[HumanNinjaToo]

Can we talk about how monk, dragoon, black mage, and, to a lesser extent, samurai are overpowered right now?

Currently i think that smn, mch, nin, brd, rdm, and dnc are all well balanced number wise, no matter which of those you choose to play they all bring roughly the same raid dps. The difference in dps between smn, the highest dps, and dnc, the lowest dps, is less than 300 raid dps.

For comparison, sam does 500 more raid dps than smn. Drg does 900 more raid dps than smn. Blm does 1000 more raid dps than smn. Mnk does a whopping 1200 more raid dps than smn.

In my opinion it would be much better for the balance of the game if every dps brought roughly the same amount of raid dps.

Source for dps numbers: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...unt&dataset=90

Edit: all the numbers I posted are raid dps. Meaning personal dps and dps from utility skills added together.

So basically you're suggesting all the DPS roles should be the same?? No thanks. My BLM has basically one thing going for it, and that's the amount of damage it can deal. Why should BLM deal the same amount of damage that other DPS roles deal who also have buffs, debuffs, heals, rez options, etc.?

[HyoMinPark]

MNK is as easy to play as SAM tho?
NIN is ded tho.

That doesn’t matter. MNK has utility (Mantra for AOE healing buff on the party every 90s, and Brotherhood for straight damage for any physical job every 90s) where as SAM has nothing but its damage as it’s “utility”—and its damage is sorely lacking. MNK is straight up better than SAM if one considers its rDPS and utility compared to SAM’s lack of both. SAM’s rDPS needs to be brought up to be directly competitive with MNK’s current rDPS, and this would come from either a buff to its personal damage, a direct nerf to MNK’s damage, or a degree of both.

Likewise with DRG, SAM needs to bring more rDPS to compete with it as well—DRG may not have piercing anymore, but it still has Battle Litany and Dragon Sight. SAM has nothing.

NIN needs a lot of help to be competitive with both the utility jobs (MNK/DRG), and SAM (to a lesser extent, but enough to where bringing one or the other is not a direct hinderance to your party). It’s apparent that the development’s utility tax on TA is far too high, given how it went from one of the most popular and most desired jobs to one with the least amount of representation amongst the DPS jobs in current uploads.

So basically you're suggesting all the DPS roles should be the same?? No thanks. My BLM has basically one thing going for it, and that's the amount of damage it can deal. Why should BLM deal the same amount of damage that other DPS roles deal who also have buffs, debuffs, heals, rez options, etc.?

They aren’t talking about personal damage, but raid damage. rDPS is the more important metric here. BLM can have all the personal damage it wants—but the other casters need to be brought up to be directly competitive with it. Right now, there is no competition between BLM and SMN/RDM: the former obliterates the latter two in rDPS contribution despite having no inherent utility.

Raise is also a poor utility to tax damage heavily on, as it stops being useful once you move past progression and into farming/optimization territory. A light tax is fine. But an ~1,000+ rDPS difference is not.

[RadicalPesto]

Job DPS is determined by raid utility and difficulty. SMN and Nin needs to be brought up badly. As for the rest, don't be surprised that your RDM isn't doing SAM level DPS when it's the easiest job in the game.

Your own comparison shows jobs aren't balanced according to difficulty, given how simplified Samurai is with the changes to Hagakure. If it was balanced according to difficulty it would be around RDM's DPS.