Disrespectful and Dismissive.

[Laphael]

I'm pretty sure a majority of the AST comments aren't about their DPS. And if it is, they're more than likely referencing the complete garbage that the new card system is in regards to buffing the DPS of the other classes.

Well, its pointless to discuss about Fun.

[Edaniel]

Well, its pointless to discuss about Fun.

You mean to tell me that Fun isn't the main point of an online game? What is it all for then? Surely not making money.

[Hatstand]

Well, its pointless to discuss about Fun.

Why is that? Are you saying that you can't determine that one system is more fun than another, and thus we should only care about balance? I mean, yes, it's subjective, but a) the people playing the class may still have a preference en mass, and b) it's important to cater to different tastes.

There have been multiple indicators that the people who main these jobs don't find the current playstyle fun, from the rampant complaints to the satisfaction poll that was done shortly after the release of 5.0.

Also, it seems to me that people who like the new healers seem to like ALL the new healers, whereas the people who don't like them don't seem to like any. Contrast this to before, when you had people who liked one or two of the jobs but thought the other(s) had problems. It seems to me that now the healers are all catering more towards the same sort of person's idea of fun, and therefore are not as well designed for pleasing healers as a whole.

[Laphael]

I mean, yes, it's subjective, but a) the people playing the class may still have a preference en mass, and b) it's important to cater to different tastes.

Fun is subjectiv and you can´t determine the "preference en mass" from forum posts.

I liked the old healers and i like the new healers, because they didn´t change as much as some ppl want me to believe, and yes, i play them all myself.

Of course they should cater to different tastes, but lets be honest here. As much fun as a class might be, if its underpowered it wont be played, so yes, balance probably is first priority with fun being a close second.

[Hatstand]

Fun is subjectiv and you can´t determine the "preference en mass" from forum posts.

I liked the old healers and i like the new healers, because they didn´t change as much as some ppl want me to believe, and yes, i play them all myself.

Of course they should cater to different tastes, but lets be honest here. As much fun as a class might be, if its underpowered it wont be played, so yes, balance probably is first priority with fun being a close second.

Not much point in saying it again for myself when it's been said very eloquently before:

There is more to a game than just numbers and parses. wanna talk numbers? Let's look at MCH. In terms of dps and viability, it was great in SB, it could compete just fine against BRD, but despite that nobody played it. Why? Because it felt like trash to play, it was a nightmare trying to play that class well, despite how good of numbers it could produce. Same thing with AST, even if for optimization it is better in terms of sheer numbers, it feels like garbage to play it, and that's 1000x worse than having bad numbers. That's why you dont see very many ASTs now, not because it isnt viable to take one, but because it's too much of a headache to get the opener, and then after opener its boring as hell.

And if you think forums are a bad metric for what people find fun (and I assume you also don't consider the poll reliable) please tell me what metric the devs should be using to tell whether people are having fun playing a class. Usage? Because AST seems to be falling down there, too.

[Laphael]

And if you think forums are a bad metric for what people find fun (and I assume you also don't consider the poll reliable) please tell me what metric the devs should be using to tell whether people are having fun playing a class. Usage? Because AST seems to be falling down there, too.

AST is the weekest healer atm if you talk about fflogs numbers, so it obviously isn´t played much... thats exactly what i said.
The poll? You talking about the poll of a thousend western players that was made around 1 week after 5.0 while everybody already complained before even trying the changes?

MCH wasn´t played in SB because BRD was the same strengh but more fun - again, what i said. First priority Balance, close second fun. If both are balanced, of course ppl play the more fun job.

So yes. Usage it is (mostly).
MCH was changed completly because it wasn´t used.
Jobs get buffed until they get used. Look at HW BRD.. it wasn´t fun (for many) but got played because it was overpowered in the end.

[LariaKirin]

AST is the weekest healer atm if you talk about fflogs numbers, so it obviously isn´t played much... thats exactly what i said.

Was. Since 5.05, it can keep up very well with the other healers in terms of RDPS and it's healing kit is very strong after the buffs.

The only really awkward thing with AST is that one of the strongest cooldowns, Earthly Star, requires some planning and requires people to stand in it. Which is too much to ask from DF and most PFs.

As for the numbers, people are still under the impression that "AST is trash". The endless whining on the forums does not help either. It is very easy for most people to adopt the "community opinion", which is no longer accurate. AST is strong. In fact, I'd say that the healers are more balanced than they've ever been.

[Laphael]

In fact, I'd say that the healers are more balanced than they've ever been.

Thats great.
Now the devs can start to work on the fun.

[nalol]

The only really awkward thing with AST is that one of the strongest cooldowns, Earthly Star, requires some planning and requires people to stand in it. Which is too much to ask from DF and most PFs.

remember that if party members removed spell effects ... they won't see earthly star, nor soil nor assylum ... that something they should change in graphic settings.

allowing to remove party members spell effects but keep group effects

[TankHunter678]

Was. Since 5.05, it can keep up very well with the other healers in terms of RDPS and it's healing kit is very strong after the buffs.

The only really awkward thing with AST is that one of the strongest cooldowns, Earthly Star, requires some planning and requires people to stand in it. Which is too much to ask from DF and most PFs.

As for the numbers, people are still under the impression that "AST is trash". The endless whining on the forums does not help either. It is very easy for most people to adopt the "community opinion", which is no longer accurate. AST is strong. In fact, I'd say that the healers are more balanced than they've ever been.

Its healing kit is still weak for single target healing. Its rDPS has hardly improved, rather the healing requirements were higher up with the later savage fights so that WHM and SCH was having to heal more. Not to mention that the AST parse numbers are hardly increasing at all, still taking up only 3.3% (95 out of 2918) of all healer parses up at E4S (E1S AST is 13.4% 4624 of 34360, E2S 9.4% 1949 of 20633, 7.2% 739 of 10200).

If AST was strong then that number should have shot up a lot by now and the gap in normal mode should have been shrunk considerably, but the 5.05 changes did not have such a grandiose effect on the numbers. Every region is still complaining about it with JP complaining even more then we are.

Clearly only the elite and luckiest of ASTs are able to make the class work for their groups, but you are still better off with the consistency of using a WHM and SCH instead.