Tank Mitigation vs Tank DPS.

[Nedkel]

Again, even if the damage increase is miniscule, it is a damage increase and benefits the party more. In a trial environment, with half decent healers, a miniscule % of increased mitigation will not help at all. A crit on a heal will make the difference, and the way heals and fights are designed in general make it even more useless.

This miniscule mitigation adds up in time, and will give a healer 4% relief during the run, the damage maybe not high, but its still there.

Read my post. I explained why a decrease of 5% does not matter to me as a healer.
This is more a matter of how healing classes are designed rather than what tanks do.

Tanks still takes sustained damage, its not all spiked bursts.
You wont notice the 4% mitigation, because its below the human perception of 10% change where something is noticeable.

As explained many times in this thread, while it does reduce the damage taken by a few % when compared to a gearset without tenacity melds, the difference is not significant enough to allow your healers to heal you any less, which is why it is not recommended. Your raid healers will want you to boost your damage instead, your dungeon healers don't care one way or another.

Its not has been proven, the prove is that healer has to use X spell to heal a tank and so because of it mitigation does not matter.
You dont count a time in these analysis, a tank with mitigation will require healing less often by a parts of seconds, which is going to turn into significant amount of time the longer fight is going.
A tank getting multiple hits to 50% will take X amount of time for this to happen, and if you give one of the tanks 4% mitigation it will hit this point 4% later in time.
This game still has sustained damage, it still needs to be healed out.
Its just that we are operating on so small numbers its never going to be noticeable.

[SturmChurro]

Snip

You do not take in account human (player) behavior. You have 2 healers in a trial run, with heals overtime, and stacking too many heals on top of each other. All you have to do is figure out how much overhealing is actually done to know why this minuscule mitigation is worth literally nothing, while damage is always worth something. If I crit it doesn't matter if the tank is taking 2% less damage it is healed anyway, if I crit and the other healer crits on the same tank it is overheal; too much. Doesn't even have to be a crit, if I heal, and the other healer heals at the same time there will be too much most of the time. Even if both tanks are taking damage at the same time and we heal each seperately, my burst heals are still enough. On a TB healers have shields, and with smart dcd usage it still literally means nothing.Too much heals are what happens in these environments. A (very) minor increase to mitigation helps nothing.

[Granyala]

And average dps could do about 10k, multiply it by 4, add two times 6k, and effectively you are sitting at around 10-11% of contribution to the overall team dps in raid.
How much will a 1.6% affect the raid team dps? Wel basically 0.16%
Killing it 0.16% will virtually have zero effect on the amount of healing done to a tank, if 4% does not, then 0.16% will not be even noteciable by a parser.

Yup, melds won't make or break a boss fight. Common mistakes in play (we're human after all), eating a void and getting a stack or even simply moving a few GCDs too long all have a much bigger impact on the teams performance.

Which is probably why SE doesn't really try to beef up tenacity to be competitive. They know that, in the end, it doesn't matter what a given player melds as long as he DOES meld the slots.

Some people just enjoy the optimization game and I get that. Personally I'd never give a tank grief for choosing tenacity. Oo
As long as he is competent and the raid knows what to do, the boss will go down anyway.
1.7% tank damage more or less is inconsequential to the final outcome.
Assuming 7K tank DPS, we're talking about a delta of lousy 119 DPS.

Tanks still takes sustained damage, its not all spiked bursts.
You wont notice the 4% mitigation, because its below the human perception of 10% change where something is noticeable.

It is rare that I get below 20% overhealing anyway.
Trust me: 4% does not affect my performance at all.

[ForteNightshade]

Actually i Melded Tenacity, then Skillspeed, then Crit on my PLD tank gear. Crit 1999, Det 1857, Direct Hit 418, Skillspeed 2227, Tenacity 3214. Thx to all the ppl selling cheap tier 7 Tenacity/Skillspeed materia lol.

60k Clemencies are nice. 10k Tankbusters is nice too.

... and this alone epitomizes why you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. PLD hates Skill Speed because it mis-aligns Fight or Flight. You want only a set amount—current bis being 1133—then you never touch the stat again. As for that 10k tankbuster. Tenacity makes absolutely zero relevant difference. You'll use the same cooldowns, your heal with use the same heals. All that changes is you're doing less damage by foolishly gimping yourself out of pure stubbornness. You can decry "raid elitists" all you fancy but theorycrafters actually put in the work to determine how each stat benefits us. What have you done? Screamed on a forum how right you are with zero evidence to support your feelscraft nonsense and somehow insist a meld set build for Savage or Ultimate content will be inferior in a dungeon—you know, that mindlessly brain dead easy content.

[Jade3173]

So...I do meld tenacity on my tanks for a couple of reasons. First and foremost is that the toughest content I ever take my tanks into is Normal Mode Raids where that little extra damage from DH over Ten isn't going to really matter in that run. I do this knowing that it's less useful but I'm cheap and whatever DH materia I get goes into my DPS classes since I tend to play more than one type and really only DNC at the moment gets perfectly melded since it's the class that'll be doing all the hard stuff where that 1% increase will matter. Lastly, I'm cheap and lazy since I know that Normal Mode Raids don't need that extra boost.

If you're taking your tank into EX/Savage level content as your main class that you want to do perfectly, then yes, avoid Tenacity, suck it up and buy the more expensive DH materia, do roulettes for the materia, do your daily hunts and kill any A/S ranks that appear to help offset costs of buying.

[RareItems]

Made another set of ilvl450 Fending gear, melded it with just Direct Hit, and have been testing it with a Samurai Friend so he can do the parsing for me. After running some Expert Roullete with it and at least 6 diffirent E4N Parties, The difference is pretty obvious and its also something that i already knew from the start.

You gain a about close to a 1-2k DPS on single target and 3-4k DPS on AoE Mass Pulls but you lose most of your utility as a tank plus the healers have to heal more and dps less (Duh).

Putting on a Ilvl450 Fending set with DH Melds on did not make any Dungeon run or E4N Run faster than if you have a ilvl450 Fending set with Tenacity/Skillspeed/Crit/Det.

So all the ppl here saying Direct Hit is the best for Tanks, and in the server chat when some newbie tank asks, which meld should they go for if they are a tank? They are pandering to an ignorant idea that Tenacity is useless and Direct Hit is the way to go.

Here's the Lodestone link, you can check all the Direct Hit Melds for the Test i did. I'll probably use it when i get lazy healers that don't DPS. It's nice to have a DPS set as a Tank.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...racter/240991/

[Barraind]

as a tank plus the healers have to heal more and dps less (Duh).

I know you are absolutely not able to do the math for this, and have no idea how mitigation works in this game, but if you save your healers "a lot of heals", when AT BEST, they are saved one heal cast every SEVENTEEN casts with a full tenacity build, you are doing something very, very wrong as a tank.

[RareItems]

I know you are absolutely not able to do the math for this, and have no idea how mitigation works in this game, but if you save your healers "a lot of heals", when AT BEST, they are saved one heal cast every SEVENTEEN casts with a full tenacity build, you are doing something very, very wrong as a tank.

Already tested it, seen it, friend parsed it, timed it. Literally no difference. 20minute Expert Roullete on Direct Hit, 20 Minute Expert Roullete on Tenacity with a random healer and random dps. You can stop making stuff up now lol.

Everyone who stacks Direct Hit and says Tenacity is bad is just saying that to justify their melds and blame the dps and the healer if they do a mass pull and die. It's usually the other 3 ppl who has to suffer so you can fulfill your Parser ego lol.

And before you say "If the Direct Hit melds are clearing the hardest contents in the game" please just stop. We all know Eden savage is not hard. I bet you can even clear that with Tenacity melds just as easilly.

[Taika]

Already tested it, seen it, friend parsed it, timed it. Literally no difference. 20minute Expert Roullete on Direct Hit, 20 Minute Expert Roullete on Tenacity with a random healer and random dps.

It's not reliable testing when you're only doing 2 runs with multiple variables (random players on different jobs, maybe even different dungeons). There are so many things affecting the damage done and received and healing done on those runs and there is no way to tell what is affected by your melds and what is affected by something else. Reliable testing would be to repeat same content with the same players on same jobs performing same actions at same times every time and repeat this multiple times for both gear sets.

[Syrellaris]

Honestly, it doesn't actually matter that much how you meld it. All the fights, even Savage have been tested at minimum ilvl, most likely without melds and can be cleared that way. So really, one could meld and mix gear as they see fit.



That said, I do like getting as close to or at Best in Slot even with melds. As a DRK tank i've been wondering what the best route for that is. A comfy skillspeed seems a must(2.37 seconds or so on your skills seem best for delirium?), after that im mainly doing Direct Hit atm but to be fair, I'm not sure thats the best way to go. I do not think Crit is important at all for tanks so I generally skip that.


Anything that lowers damage taken and increases healing taken gets preference over crit in my opinion. DH and tenacity seem to be the better choices after skill speed.