How about we change the "dps check" a little?

[Nedkel]

With this bolded part you somehow managed to make your suggestion worse... seriously? Now you're putting the burden for making up for subpar DPS on the healers who are suddenly faced with "You better heal this up quickly or its a wipe after all because the dps in your group was to bad, better make up for it!"
No... just no.

You get the reward for being good enough at the overall fight, that means following the mechanics while dishing out enough damage. What you are asking for is a participation reward, because the difficulty of Savage fights is a combination of more complexe mechanics and higher dps-requirement. If you cant bring that to the table, stay away from it.

I also suggest that this damage to be mitigatable with other things as well.
Tanks LB or various tank abilities may come in place as essential along with healers ability to heal it all.

What i am asking for is not a participation reward, you wont get through it if you are not good enough anyway.
Its increasing the amount of rewards per week for good players, and let the lesser ones get something too instead of failing it and never coming back, because he/she is stuck at savage raiding and cant progress with gear anymore, making savage raiding more accessible for PuGs or groups of random mediocore people who want to do it. Those rewards are just a gear used on pve, why is everyone losing their mind if someone worse than them get a chance to get it too? It is fair enough that someone good will be able to get it twice a week, and someone worse get a chance to get it one, both parties progress, people who have no clue to play the game will not progress anyway.

This is the point of my suggestion, to make it more rewarding for good ones, and possible to make anything out of it for average ones.

[Hawklaser]

E2S, E3S, and E4S all have soft enrages. As did Neo Exdeath, God Kefka, Final Omega, Chaos to a degree (you could survive the 4 sets of debuff before the hard enrage), Tsukuyomi's enrage was an increasing stack damage mechanic, back in the day Shiva and Phoenix had increasing damage stacks throughout the fight, resulting in a soft enrage. There are loads more and are more common than you believe.

How about the increasing number of adds if you "forgot" to do the mechanics of Satasha, or Copperbell mines for example? You know two of the first three dungeons if the game. Too bad most vets have the gear and skill to just steamroll these and not let newbies get a little feel early on that mechanics and performing well are important.

[Rilifane]

You are correct that there absolutely should be a DPS requirement to prevent that kind of situation, but that doesn't mean the fight should be built entirely around a DPS check. Hard enrages are the DPS requirement, the point where if you don't have the dps to kill it before this time, it's an instant wipe. This doesn't need to be strict however, merely just something that is in place to prevent people stacking tanks and healers.

Soft enrages, meanwhile, are the intended end point of the fight, where a mechanic becomes gradually stronger over the course of the fight, and eventually becomes an overwhelming resource drain. Could that mechanic be cheesed through with excessive healing and mitigation? Yes, but then you'd be hard pressed to beat the hard enrage. Soft enrages are intended to be a skill check for healers and tanks. The better they are, the further they can push the soft enrage.

We don't have that. We have DPS checks galore, but not so much healing and tanking checks. Or even mechanical skill checks, really, at least not beyond "Don't stand in the things we don't want you to stand in" and "Stand in the things we want you to stand in"

Soft enrages are also a way for tanks and healers to contribute towards passing the check without having to be a pseudo-dps. At least in WoW soft enrages were also designed in a way where stacking healers wasn't an option at all. It was a choice between 2 or 3 healers for 10man and 4 or 5 healers in 20/25man. I can't remember ever seeing a raid running 6 healers in 25man even if the raidwide damage was heavy and the soft enrage added to that.
If the dps is the weakest link (lack of gear, suboptimal raid comp, learning the fight etc), a good healer team can make up for quite a bit. On the other hand if the healers are the weakest link, good dps can make up for that by not letting it come to the point where the healers get overwhelmed. Tanks always contribute either way. They help with correct positioning and minimizing running and mitigation to take of pressure.
A decently designed soft enrage is enough of a dps check.
I'm good with some hard enrages, that's okay. But it's definitely not the only way to desihn encounters.

[Vidu]

I also suggest that this damage to be mitigatable with other things as well.
Tanks LB or various tank abilities may come in place as essential along with healers ability to heal it all.

What i am asking for is not a participation reward, you wont get through it if you are not good enough anyway.
Its increasing the amount of rewards per week for good players, and let the lesser ones get something too instead of failing it and never coming back, because he/she is stuck at savage raiding and cant progress with gear anymore, making savage raiding more accessible for PuGs or groups of random mediocore people who want to do it. Those rewards are just a gear used on pve, why is everyone losing their mind if someone worse than them get a chance to get it too? It is fair enough that someone good will be able to get it twice a week, and someone worse get a chance to get it one, both parties progress, people who have no clue to play the game will not progress anyway.

This is the point of my suggestion, to make it more rewarding for good ones, and possible to make anything out of it for average ones.

My bad. You're putting the burden on the healers and tanks because the dps failed to deliver.

And the reason(s) that at least I'm against this are:
- You're basically asking for a nerf in disguise. A nerf on the most challenging content in the game, we dont need that.
- You're saying yourself that people who arent "good enough" wont get through it - so you're putting a certain "bar" for everyone to pass in place already, so what would change? That the bar is lower now? Why shouldnt people amount to the current challenge though?
- Your suggestion is not to reward good players, its to carry the bad ones. If you want to reward good players, then lets put something in that rewards you for a crazy-speedkill that you'll get when you beat the thing 2 minutes before enrage hits! That would be rewarding good players.
- DPS-checks are the main mechanic to hold DPS accountable. During the whole fight the main burden falls on tanks and healers to ensure that there is no wipe by keeping everyone and/or themself alive. The DPS-check(s) are what places the burden on dps aswell. Your own suggestion highlights that by saying how tanks and healers would have to make up for hitting the soft enrage. A dps needs to learn their rotation just as much as a tank needs to learn proper cooldown-use, so...
- The reward is not only gear, its also the victory itself and that victory should be earned by mastering both your job and the fight.
- The gear is only relevant for those who are raiding, you can do everything else in the game without it (if you're good enough you can do Savage without it!). You dont need this gear, but if you want it - earn it. We have so, so many alternative ways of gearing up for 90% of the content, make use of those. Tomestone-gear is the progression way for everyone who cant or doesnt want to raid.

Not everything in this game needs to be accessible by everyone. Some things should require more dedication and better rewards for that dedication, Savage is one of them. You shouldnt clear the most difficult content in the game if you cant deal with mechanics and your rotation at the same time - or if you dont know your rotation to begin with. And other jobs shouldnt have to make up for your shortcoming or suffer a penalty, because you couldnt bother to learn how to play your job. At a certain point the game should just tell you "You shall not pass until you learn how to play properly!" - Savage is a pretty damn late point for that already.

[Nora_of_Mira]

What i am asking for is not a participation reward, you wont get through it if you are not good enough anyway.
Its increasing the amount of rewards per week for good players, and let the lesser ones get something too instead of failing it and never coming back [...]
This is the point of my suggestion, to make it more rewarding for good ones, and possible to make anything out of it for average ones.

that is what a participation reward is.

[Connor]

I don’t do Savage so I can’t speak from personal experience, but surely having a mix or both hard and soft enrages with a variety of DPS checks, mechanics checks, healing checks, etc would be more fun than just having one or other?

In terms of rewards for coming close but not winning, it’s definitely a controversial topic. Maybe they could have some sort of consolation prize for parties that are in the fight for the full duration but don’t defeat the enemy? Naturally it’d have to be something that won’t give them a real advantage, like some tomestones or materia or something like that.

As an aside, I’m reminded of the FFVII Battle Square where the consolation prize was a tissue lol. Maybe they could hand out some sort of item like tissues or salt that have no used other than to be traded in if you get like 10 for one of the savage trade-in items. I feel like that just overcomplicates the loot system even more though.

I do understand what others are saying about things like that giving players an advantage where they otherwise wouldn’t have. If you keep fighting and getting a consolation prize then eventually you could end up with the same gear as those who managed to beat it, which isn’t very fair.

[SamSmoot]

Or you could try to improve, see where your team is making mistakes, and try to beat enrage? You shouldn't be rewarded for not being able to beat the content.

How do the low-performing players know they need to improve? The game doesn't reveal performance data. (PC players have a way to do this.)
Perhaps the game should give each player a ranking at the end of every fight, like "You were 4th in DPS on that fight", and "you failed to damage X adds..)
Only show players' own scores to avoid abuse being heaped on the low performers.

Without this data, players may just keep thinking they're doing well, when they're actually not.
After seeing oneself come in last repeatedly, you might want to seek out some advice.

[IttyBitty]

not so much healing and tanking checks.

Siri, what are tankbusters in general?
How about Aggro resets?
Almagest?
White Hole?
Charybdis?
Photon especially when combined with Eternal Darkness?
Missile?
Allagan Field?
Shinryu's dragon heads?
Akh Morn?
Death Sentence + Plummet?
Heartless Angel/Heartless Archangel?
Practically every single Prey mechanic?

How many more examples do you want?

[Goji1639]

I’m gonna go with a big, fat “NO” on participation trophies.

If you can’t meet a DPS check, why should you be rewarded with better gear for it? How about you take the time to practice rotations and improve yourself instead of asking to get something for failing?

I don't really understand this mentality when it comes to a game. When everyone's paying the same amount no one should be locked out of or denied content for not being good at it; there should just be "better" rewards for those who are good at it.

I do think casual players simply not being allowed to clear certain content is dumb. Not that I feel it's a huge deal, as there is plenty of casual content; but you people preaching about "participation trophies," need to stop getting so much of your sense of self-worth from a video game.

[SenorPatty]

I don't really understand this mentality when it comes to a game. When everyone's paying the same amount no one should be locked out of or denied content for not being good at it; there should just be "better" rewards for those who are good at it.

I do think casual players simply not being allowed to clear certain content is dumb. Not that I feel it's a huge deal, as there is plenty of casual content; but you people preaching about "participation trophies," need to stop getting so much of your sense of self-worth from a video game.

Except that's how video games work in general. Want to get to this next part? Clear this part. And so on and so forth. If you can't clear the part required to progress, guess what? You're denied. Doesn't matter if the game you bought was 5$, 60$, is f2p or p2p.