Lack of End Game Content

[HyoMinPark]

My contention is very clear. The reward matters.

We can both agree, the reward if measured by power, is essentially the same.

Ultimate was released months after Omega Savage, yet so much fewer participated and succeeded.

IT DID DETER players from doing it. This is is suggested by how few people even participated in it.

I believe, if the stats for ultimate, reflected just how much challenging it was than savage, you'd see more people pushing to complete it.

You directly contradicted yourself, and now you are trying to backpedal and change your argument. What deterred people from doing Ultimate compared to Neo-Exdeath is that Ultimate is significantly harder and players cannot do it. Increased stats on the weapons would not encourage more players to try Ultimate or push to complete it. It’s difficult to the point that most actually cannot do it, and that is the entire purpose of the content.

I don’t think you actually understand the design of Ultimate. You just think it’s another avenue for big boi strong gear, but that was never its intention. Its intention was to give the hardcore raiders a challenge because they were dissatisfied with the way Savage was getting progressively easier since Midas.

[Avraym]

You directly contradicted yourself, and now you are trying to backpedal and change your argument. What deterred people from doing Ultimate compared to Neo-Exdeath is that Ultimate is significantly harder and players cannot do it. Increased stats on the weapons would not encourage more players to try Ultimate or push to complete it. It’s difficult to the point that most actually cannot do it, and that is the entire purpose of the content.

I don’t think you actually understand the design of Ultimate. You just think it’s another avenue for big boi strong gear, but that was never its intention. Its intention was to give the hardcore raiders a challenge because they were dissatisfied with the way Savage was getting progressively easier since Midas.

I dont think I'm contradicting or back peddling at all. I even said that less players will also be inclined to do ultimate due to its difficulty alone.

But lets be real. A lot of players going into Ultimate Coil, would've had O4S weapons (or better).

What do you think their attitudes will be when they wipe over and over when they already have a reward of equal measure months ago.

I guarantee you, a lot players gave up, because the reward just wasn't worth the effort outside of bragging rights.

If ultimates are purely for bragging rights, it stands to reason why so few would strive to complete it - which is only reinforced by the statistics the dev's released.

[CorbinDallas]

I dont think I'm contradicting or back peddling at all. I even said that less players will also be inclined to do ultimate due to its difficulty alone.

But lets be real. A lot of players going into Ultimate Coil, would've had O4S weapons.

What do you think their attitudes will be when they wipe over and over when they already have a reward of equal measure months ago.

I guarantee you, a lot players gave up, because the reward just wasn't worth the effort outside of bragging rights.

If ultimates are purely for bragging rights, it stands to reason why so few would strive to complete it.

People had those weapons because they literally had cleared Savage way before ultimate and it was all they had to do before the content came out, and beyond that, why wouldn't you have the best gear possible to challenge the hardest content in the game? Better gear means an ever so slightly larger margin for error.

I would know, I dipped my toes into Ultima after I had cleared Alphascape. You know why I did that? Its because I was bored. Savage didn't satisfy me anymore, I had capped all jobs, had bis on at least one job per role, and I was considering unsubbing until 5.0.

We wiped, a lot, and disbanded after only a few weeks, largely due to the looming expansion. But we had an absolute blast in the time we had, the vanity rewards weren't ever a concern, it was about bettering ourselves and doing something that felt good.

But I guess you're gonna gloss all over this like you have with literally every other post telling you the same thing in order to further your narrative that the only reason people do content is superior gear. Fact is, people don't do ultimate, not because the gear is out of date, but simply because they're not cut out for it.

[HyoMinPark]

I dont think I'm contradicting or back peddling at all. I even said that less players will also be inclined to do ultimate due to its difficulty alone.

But lets be real. A lot of players going into Ultimate Coil, would've had O4S weapons.

What do you think their attitudes will be when they wipe over and over when they already have a reward of equal measure months ago.

I guarantee you, a lot players gave up, because the reward just wasn't worth the effort outside of bragging rights.

If ultimates are purely for bragging rights, it stands to reason why so few would strive to complete it.

The attitudes now in Ultimate are fairly positive unless you have members in a group making things particularly negative with their attitude—and not attitude caused by wipes, but by just bad personalities. Do groups get frustrated? Sure. My first UwU group had many nights of frustration when we were wiping to the primals. But I feel fairly confident in saying that most, if not every, group that clears UCoB and UwU have that victory screenshot at the end; the victory screenshot in front of Bahamut in T13 or Ultima Weapon in Ultima’s Bane; the victory nerd scream at the end of the VOD if people were streaming. Having a weapon that is essentially the same as Savage did not dull the clear for them. I didn’t give two hoots about the stats on the weapon when I cleared the first time. I just cared that I had done it.

The people that do Ultimate do it for the challenge. Not for the gear. They never did it for the gear (outside of glamour—certainly not for a BiS). And I don’t think Ultimates need some Ultimate Big Boi gear to drop from it for participation.

Gear is transient in this game. Raiders realize that. That’s why Ultimate-tier raiders don’t put stock in the weapon stats—they never did. They put the stock in the achievement of doing something that is challenging. It is enough for them.


And hey. The bragging rights from an Ultimate clear were enough for some to fork over $1200 for carries when the content first released. Too bad it becomes fairly obvious fairly quickly that their clear wasn’t earned by anyone other than their credit card.