Lack of End Game Content

[AniKai]

.... But no, everything is fine here. We're just imagining it. We obviously don't have any points that anyone should listen to ...
We all clearly do not have any valid points however, because we have not maxed our miner to 80 nor done every single achievement in the game. Did you win the jumbo cactpot yet? No? Then your points are invalid!

Indeed. Everything's fine. Fancy tho, I've got 4100+ hours of gameplay and I've not yet even seen all the raids (especially the very old ones, which no one does anymore)...

[Forever_Learning]

Thank you. Though I'll still have to disagree that the lack of endgame is a problem. So we will just have to agree to disagree on that front.

As while I do enjoy plenty of the non endgame content in the game, there are also plenty of times I want stuff that is challenging to do at level cap.

I think things will be released over time as the expansion progresses, like another max level zone and another deep dungeon.

At the same time, I think there's a problem when content is challenging only because it is end-game content.

Max Level zones, for example, stop being challenging when the next expansion is released, same with dungeons and raids.

I especially dislike additional end-game content that improves item level, I would prefer it be challenging content done strictly for cosmetic rewards. When the rewards are largely cosmetic, the content tends to have very long legs because the reward is theoretically always relevant. When the content is done specifically to increase item level, it tends to get dropped completely once that level is maxed out. That being said, I didn't like GW2, so some amount is good, and I think the amount in ff14 is ok.

I would totally support, for example, a deep dungeon that began at level 80, or a boss rush carnival for all jobs like Blue Mage.

Later on, they can be things that also give exp so it becomes an additional way to level at level 80 in a future expansion.

It's true when someone earlier said I was basically just arguing against WoW - yes, that's true, I dislike gear treadmills and how WoW uses gear to make it's player base engage in activity it doesn't care for.

WoW has other issues too but this post is forever long.

As long as additional end-game content doesn't impact your item level, I'm fine, and if it's challenging - awesome

I'm someone who completed challenge modes in MoP and WoD where the rewards were strictly cosmetic.

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode dungeons in FF14 . . .

[Kaylessa]

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode dungeons in FF14 . . .

That would be amazing

[Hawklaser]

I think things will be released over time as the expansion progresses, like another max level zone and another deep dungeon.

At the same time, I think there's a problem when content is challenging only because it is end-game content.

Max Level zones, for example, stop being challenging when the next expansion is released, same with dungeons and raids.

I especially dislike additional end-game content that improves item level, I would prefer it be challenging content done strictly for cosmetic rewards. When the rewards are largely cosmetic, the content tends to have very long legs because the reward is theoretically always relevant. When the content is done specifically to increase item level, it tends to get dropped completely once that level is maxed out.

I would totally support, for example, a deep dungeon that began at level 80, or a boss rush carnival for all jobs like Blue Mage.

Later on, they can be things that also give exp so it becomes an additional way to level at level 80 in a future expansion.

It's true when someone earlier said I was basically just arguing against WoW - yes, that's true, I dislike gear treadmills and how WoW uses gear to make it's player base engage in activity it doesn't care for.

As long as additional end-game content doesn't impact your item level, I'm fine, and if it's challenging - awesome

I'm someone who completed challenge modes in MoP and WoD where the rewards were strictly cosmetic.

Hmmmm, maybe we could have challenge mode in FF14 . . .

The reason I would like it to be end game content is while there is plenty of things to do through out the game, once you hit cap things dry up. But I think that comes from a design perspective/veiwpoint issue that someone else made click in a different thread.

Imagine this being a thing and you have to go from X to Y for a quest without flying as a newbie.
This would be ridiculously annoying like it is in GW2.

I am better with being strongest on earth warrior of light, the killer of gods and dragons, who fought the apocalypse himself, than a weak noodle who will die from tree attacking him.
Can you even imagine how would that look? You could fight and defeat incredibly strong entities who are able to change reality and destroy it, yet you get killed by a bunch of rabbits or mushrooms.
That would be double ridiculous.

NO, lets write it down again.
You are playing a demi-god hercules-like warrior of light, the storngest "humanoid" in the universe who fought and defeated the world destroyer, Gods, dragons and entities who are able to change the physics and manipulate space and do anything they want, aaand you get killed by a squirell or turtle.
That would be the lamest thing i have ever seen.

The whole not seeing eye to eye, I think is more from the difference of enjoying playing Superman beating up mostly minor villains in the absence of Kryptonite vs enjoying playing Batman beating up the same foes. Without Kryptonite, Superman gets no challenge from most foes he faces. In XIV's case, in ARR the Warrior of Light was more on the Batman side of the Scale, now it seems more like its on the Superman side of the scale. Without the Warrior of Lights version of Kryptonite, there is very little challenge most of the time.

I don't think gear or progression has much of anything to do with it at all. Just consider how entertaining or enjoyable most superhero fiction is, and where they and their typical opponents fit on the power scale. The reason there is a distinct feel of lack of end game content to some is more likely due to what our typical opponents are at end game outside of the MSQ. Run of the mill wildlife and the like, random dungeon mobs, etc. To some, our character is likened to a Demi-god or Primal. Pray tell what else in the world is supposed to provide a challenge to one Warrior of Light, let alone a group of them? There isn't much that fills the gap that the MSQ antagonist leaves once the MSQ is wrapped up. Where as in XI, your character was just viewed as an adventurer that had managed to perform some exceptional deeds, most things in the world were still a threat to any individual adventurer. Might be why there wasn't as much of a feeling of a lack of endgame in XI despite it actually probably having even less.

[Arthrun]

FFXIV has a focus and its not end game.
WoW does not have a focus but has a ton of end game.
Never could quite get into ESO.

I happen to subscribe to both games still. I am attempting to get more into savage and extreme trial groups.... but the group I went with were able to finish all the content within a night..... which was awesome because I had more time to play fire emblem. buuuuuuuuuut for those who do not have other games/shows/hobbies/responsibilities to occupy their time. Yeah there is a distinct lack of raiding content. End game content is really subjective in FFXIV. Housing is a form of Endgame content for those who do nothing but professions. /shrug

[TaiyouSeishin]

Who said this game would change completely? All raiders are asking for is to receive just a tiny bit more content. We're not looking to change your gameplay experience, with the exception of an improvement to your raiding experience. The raider crowd is not out to harm the casuals here.

As a person who went theough a number of mmos, i have to say a lot of gsmes both did things good and did others bad. (This is all opinion ofc)

One thing i felt this game did right compared to wow is that your end game raiding came in tiers. You get reg first, then the higher difficulty drops later. I like that, it gives everyone in the player base a chance to catch up to each other and whatever, and then next difficulty hits so the more hardcore can move on. This game at the end of SB and several ways of gearing up, tomestones, 70 dungeons, tokens (by the crafting section), eureka. Ff14 has a lot of options, that each by themselves dont last that long (outside eureka) if a raid came out tomorrow, almost everyone would jave completed it by the end of the day (ilvl requirement for queue notwithstanding)

WoW had less or close to the same amount of options, just lasted longer. Rep grinds (similar to our beast tribes) that took time, higher level dungeons for gear before going into heroic dungeons for gearing up for raids. And even the raids themselves took time. Average to competent raids didnt down the boss withing the first week, but higher competent/progression raids qere farming regular and pushing heroic. Heroic end boss sometimes lived for a month before anyone downed them.

Basically it comes down to, the longevity of each activity as opposed to the amount of options.

Ff14 has a lot of activity options, WoW had longevity.

(WoW has been struggling for a number of reasons mostly over direction, and dissatisfaction over class changes/balamce. Hence it is failing. Doubt ff14 will go too far down that road anytime soon)

[TaiyouSeishin]

That said i would LOVE a less restrictive, but just as much work required content like eureka. Something for me to get on and do when i have some time, that can help when i have more time later.

(Had to seperate posts cuz im on mobile and my phone+mobile is dumb, so i apologize T_T)

[Zabuza]

Yea, reactive mechanics indeed. Things that you need to be prepared for, but do not happen in any predetermined order, timing, etc. And at times could toss in something completely unexpected/unseen-before to throw a wrench to the clockwork. I've got a bit mixed feeling about Eureka, but it certainly was... different. Part I loved it, part hated - exciting to the boot at first, but a bummer that FATEs needed a crapton of ppl...

Diadem was a miserable failure... Everyone fishing (or mining, etc) and no one doing anything else XD

But speaking of another mode, what sort of mode you'd like? (If you've stated it before, its buried somewhere behind walls of text in the hundred pages before).

I'll just put my previous reply which is buried.

I would love if the Savage raids were even more expansive than coil was, with plenty of hidden mysteries to explore. Of course, I realize people don't wish to waste their time and want to go straight to the goal, so there would have to be proper reward incentives. For this, I think of something like chests that can contain an item that pops an NM, either inside or outside the raid, which in turn would drop high gil items to sell(Think KSNMs/BCNMs from FFXI). High-end crafting items having a small chance to drop off the trash in between is also something that can provide incentive. They can also implement a survival mode type endgame, where waves of enemies(tons of trash and bosses scattered here and there) rush at you(similar to one of your suggestions). Rewards could correspond to how long you survive and how many bosses you kill. What is sorely lacking right now in endgame is any form of exploration or adventure. It's just boss fights and that's it. It's extremely linear, as is the gear, which is also a limiting factor on endgame right now. If you made additional modes, the amount of BiS gear wouldn't increase, because there is no such thing as situational gear in this game, just flat stats. I would love to implement more exploration into our endgame, for it to feel like an epic adventure. But again, knowing how people are, there has to be some kind of reward for that.

In addition to that, I think it would be cool if they actually created an endgame area in the world(just like how Sea and Sky were in FFXIV.) An expansive place where there is actual danger in going through the zone, bosses to be fought. Only downside to this is how FFXIV's current claim system is. While normally I think their claim system is good, in this instance I would want it to where only the party/alliance that initially tags the boss gets items/credit. I guess the Arsenal was kind of like that?

Extreme and savage difficulty dungeons are also an idea. Definitely not at the top of my list, but it's there. I'm just a bit weary of instanced trials. Which, is what the Savage raids also are now as well.

[AniKai]

I'll just put my previous reply which is buried.



In addition to that, I think it would be cool if they actually created an endgame area in the world(just like how Sea and Sky were in FFXIV.) An expansive place where there is actual danger in going through the zone, bosses to be fought. Only downside to this is how FFXIV's current claim system is. While normally I think their claim system is good, in this instance I would want it to where only the party/alliance that initially tags the boss gets items/credit. I guess the Arsenal was kind of like that?

Mmm, there's that... But what if mixing real mystery solving á la Secret World? Stuff that's not solvable by just clicking on things...

[Zabuza]

Mmm, there's that... But what if mixing real mystery solving á la Secret World? Stuff that's not solvable by just clicking on things...

I never played Secret World, so I can't comment on how good this system would be. Either way, at least you're down for suggesting improvements. I like that. Most of what has been going on in this thread is people arguing over what endgame is or asking if someone has done absolutely everything in this game. Completely useless. Devs will get nothing from that, if they are reading this.