Lack of End Game Content

[Krotoan]

You'll find very quickly, that the amount specifically intended for max level is almost non existent.

which many have conceded but retorted that this game isn't designed very heavily for the "race to cap, now what?" crowd.

But it's incredibly limited. In NO other MMORPG's expansion that I've played, have I be been able to beat the story, reach max level and acquire the best in slot gear for MULTIPLE jobs, in less than two weeks.

There is a lot to do in this game, but there's just very very limited amounts of content that is both challenging and rewarding to do at max level.

Again, this has been stated to be by design. Your definitions of challenging and rewarding are very strict , FFXIV tends to cater to the largest playerbase possible with the majority of content, this means challenges have to be average, we've hit a certain plateau of difficulty that the Dev team is happy with and most players can manage. They've acknowledged people want challenges above that and tried to provide but they also know that the gimme challenge crowd is very small.

Why is it so absurd, that reaching your characters full power potential in such a short amount of time is a problem?
Why is it so absurd, that perhaps after the 3rd expansion, that still getting the same formulaic content has grown lacking?
Why is it so absurd, that there is so much for casual players to do, but so little for raiders.

Because as advertised this is a Themepark Game and that entails a holistic approach, if taken for face value at only one aspect it will always be lacking. The forumula has been working and continues to work for the last 6 years, it's showing a little strain now that we have 2 more races to provide for though so who knows if we'll even get the same amount of content now. It is NOT only a casual game unless "casual" means "not endgame" content. The crafting and marketboard scene is a daily madhouse for some. The completionists hunt their achievements constantly (not to mention the huntmarks and their 24 hour linkshells). People have alts, people run RP, people even use it as the backdrop for just social gatherings and events. This isn't casual VS Raiders. Some people likely play more than you do and feel just as fulfilled by the things you consider "unrewarding" as you do by a fresh raid.

We enjoy the content we get, but we shouldn't be condemned for pointing out how little raid content there is despite the growing player base and increase in raiders.

Condemned? You shouldn't be, but expect that when you propose focusing on "endgame" content only that there will be pushback because more of something means less of something else with this development team. The established userbase tends to like the way things are and expects certain things at certain times along with a game they can play casually and still be on par with someone who focuses solely on endgame dungeon runs.

This is how it has been for 6 years and while some may say change is good, why are you surprised people react negatively to a represented community going "OK but all the other stuff is fluff, gimme more of that one thing I love" which implies the other part is worthless. You may not truly feel that, you probably understand that everyone has that thing they like about the game they play, but while you feel you're simply asking for more of what YOU want, you are indirectly asking for the less raid oriented community to sacrifice a different part for that.

[Avraym]

Condemned? You shouldn't be, but expect that when you propose focusing on "endgame" content only that there will be pushback because more of something means less of something else with this development team. The established userbase tends to like the way things are and expects certain things at certain times along with a game they can play casually and still be on par with someone who focuses solely on endgame dungeon runs.

This is how it has been for 6 years and while some may say change is good, why are you surprised people react negatively to a represented community going "OK but all the other stuff is fluff, gimme more of that one thing I love" which implies the other part is worthless. You may not truly feel that, you probably understand that everyone has that thing they like about the game they play, but while you feel you're simply asking for more of what YOU want, you are indirectly asking for the less raid oriented community to sacrifice a different part for that.

The game isn't the same as it was 6 years ago. It has grown. It has more revenue, more support and a bigger team. It has more resources it can recycle to create new content which all other games rightfully do.
So why are we fed the same amount of content and why does it mean resources need to necessarily be taken away from something? Would it be so difficult to invest a little more into something we can all agree doesn't have a lot currently invested into?

Nobody is implying casual content is worthless. We'd just like OUR side to be a little more sated.

[Tint]

The game isn't the same as it was 6 years ago. It has grown. It has more revenue, more support and a bigger team. It has more resources it can recycle to create new content which all other games rightfully do.
So why are we fed the same amount of content and why does it mean resources need to necessarily be taken away from something? Would it be so difficult to invest a little more into something we can all agree doesn't have a lot currently invested into?

Nobody is implying casual content is worthless. We'd just like OUR side to be a little more sated.

It's because they pump their ressources into stuff like Blue Mage, Bard Performance, Combat Replay, GATEs (okay, I am not against new gates, but that rollercoster was maybe a bit over the top for what it is), adding systems like Trusts when we already have Squadron, a half baked Glamour Dresser... And honestly removing the relic from dungeons made dungeons kind of obsolete after leveling. So we maybe can add Dungeons to the list too. Then solo inctance story content where you play as another character...

I would not even say that these things are casual content. I hardly would call these things content at all.

Well and treasure map dungeons, wich are content but kind of niche...

[Xieldras]

Hey now! I like my gambling and being mad at pixels on a screen! ;D

I think the Dev team might be stretching themselves too thin on content overall. I know a few have been considered failures based on the threads about them (BLU, Eureka especially Pagos, Glam Dresser, Housing).

[linay]

The game isn't the same as it was 6 years ago. It has grown.

It has grown with the type of formula it has now. People unsubbing for parts of the expansion are only doing what Yoshida has said he's ok with people doing. The best way to give feedback if you really want change in the type of content they focus on is to quit completely until you see them changing the game. Otherwise, whatever it is they're doing for the past 6 years seems to work overall and they seem to like their current output for each expansion. It certainly works for me and some other players.

It has more revenue, more support and a bigger team. It has more resources it can recycle to create new content which all other games rightfully do.

Yoshida has said they're lacking people to do difficult PVE battle content. That doesn't change with bigger revenue.

As such, if true, then providing more Savage raid bosses probably won't take away from features like bard performance, but perhaps from Ultimate fight. After all, 2 Ultimate fights instead of 3 allowed them to do Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka. So more battle content of one type might take away from battle content of another type rather than from non-battle content.

[Avraym]

It has grown with the type of formula it has now. People unsubbing for parts of the expansion are only doing what Yoshida has said he's ok with people doing. The best way to give feedback if you really want change in the type of content they focus on is to quit completely until you see them changing the game. Otherwise, whatever it is they're doing for the past 6 years seems to work overall and they seem to like their current output for each expansion. It certainly works for me and some other players.

Yoshida has said they're lacking people to do difficult PVE battle content. That doesn't change with bigger revenue.

As such, if true, then providing more Savage raid bosses probably won't take away from features like bard performance, but perhaps from Ultimate fight. After all, 2 Ultimate fights instead of 3 allowed them to do Baldesion Arsenal in Eureka. So more battle content of one type might take away from battle content of another type rather than from non-battle content.

I don't see quitting as viable feedback. Posts like, "I'm unsubbing goodbye forever" are nothing more than shrill, attention seeking posts (something we see often).

Instead, I believe creating an open dialogue about the problem is better.

It worked for the gender lock new races after all.

If they have the revenue but not the people, then hire more staff? That seems like an easy problem with an easy fix.

[Xieldras]

I don't see quitting as viable feedback. Posts like, "I'm unsubbing goodbye forever" are nothing more than shrill, attention seeking posts (something we see often).

Instead, I believe creating an open dialogue about the problem is better.

It worked for the gender lock new races after all.

If they have the revenue but not the people, then hire more staff? That seems like an easy problem with an easy fix.

Agree to a certain point. Yes a lot of "goodbye forever" posts are attention-seeking but even for this game quitting while giving feedback is good for Devs to put a lens on something that might need to be looked at.

Also, for sure open dialogue is the best on forum posts. I know everyone is passionate about what they love but resorting to insults and passive-aggressiveness doesn't contribute to conversation. And respectful conversation is great. Players should be asking together for Square to dedicate more money to its MMO.

And although there will be some communication/culture troubles if they hire Devs overseas, if it's been a problem for so long then maybe investing a bit on that side will prove fruitful.

[Mahoukenshi]

I don't see quitting as viable feedback. Posts like, "I'm unsubbing goodbye forever" are nothing more than shrill, attention seeking posts (something we see often).

Instead, I believe creating an open dialogue about the problem is better.

It worked for the gender lock new races after all.

If they have the revenue but not the people, then hire more staff? That seems like an easy problem with an easy fix.

Based on what was written and quoted in various topics, it's not a simple "hire more" problem, but appears to be more about *finding* staff that fulfills their (high) standards for creating this kind of content. Unfortunately, I cannot find a concrete source for it.

[linay]

I don't see quitting as viable feedback. Posts like, "I'm unsubbing goodbye forever" are nothing more than shrill, attention seeking posts (something we see often).

Instead, I believe creating an open dialogue about the problem is better.

It worked for the gender lock new races after all.

If they have the revenue but not the people, then hire more staff? That seems like an easy problem with an easy fix.

I don't mean posting about quitting. I just mean that you say this game can change its formula because it has grown, but this game grew with its current formula. If it were to lose people on a permanent basis rather than a seasonal basis, then the developer would have to take notice. Otherwise, while they still appreciate the feedback and would want to create more content to appease those who want more challenging PVE, it might not be as high on their priority if they cannot find people to work on it without affecting their current schedule.

And hiring more staff is probably the problem because the people with the right qualifications are not applying from what I gather.

[Krotoan]

The game isn't the same as it was 6 years ago. It has grown. It has more revenue, more support and a bigger team. It has more resources it can recycle to create new content which all other games rightfully do.
So why are we fed the same amount of content and why does it mean resources need to necessarily be taken away from something? Would it be so difficult to invest a little more into something we can all agree doesn't have a lot currently invested into?

Nobody is implying casual content is worthless. We'd just like OUR side to be a little more sated.

It has grown a lot. Which means every gear set requires even more work, every event and cutscene more testing to make sure it looks/sounds/plays OK with all the ingame assets and so on and so on. It definitely has more revenue, but does this go straight back into FFXIV? It seems not. I would love if it did and if we could be guaranteed that we would simply get more things instead of shifting teams around to sate one group while starving another I'd bet nobody would even bat an eye at your requests. Bigger team? I know they gave Yoshi even more responsibility but not necessarily more people.
The thing is we often get new things at the cost of other things. Eureka cost us content and so did diadem and lord of verminion. As long as the current schedule of content can be guaranteed there will be far less opposition to content as specifically targeted as "challenging endgame". But we cannot. By experience we've had slow releases and outright omissions because of "extra" content.

Both of our situations would be greatly improved if SE would just open up some resources for FFXIV to be expanded, I think that should be the focus of the community. Convince them that FFXIV is worth a bigger team and budget.

This thread became very "Us VS Them" on both sides, doesn't have to be though. We all want the game to be more expansive, but by example that's not what happens overall with this dev group. It's a blanket we're all tugging in different directions and someone's toes always end up sticking out, that's why people react like that.