MSQ roulette and AFK

[Krotoan]

TLDR: Don't punish people for finding a way around a bad change. Fix the problem and people won't feel inclined to find a way around the problem.

You're making 7 other people carry you and making the encounter that much longer. You deserve the kick, right at the end too so you waste your time.

[MistakeNot]

There are probably lots of people unintentionally afking because the cut scenes are so insanely long that they have fallen asleep or gotten embroiled in something else and forget to check back with the game.

The few times I have run this roulette since the change and have gotten unlucky by getting the praetorium have been frustrating because I do not have multiple monitors, so if I want to do something else I have to click away from the game, and then I don’t know when there is a break in the movie and have to keep checking and checking. I wished I could set it so it would play a sound at the end of a cut scene when the game is not the active window. Potentially something like that to notify people that there’s a break in the cut scenes when they are clicked away would help. Or alternatively just make these dungeons solo.

You can set up the game so you keep hearing the audio even when the game is in the background. That way you can alt-tab away while one of the extra long cutscenes play and still hear from the changes in the speech/music when the cutscene is over and something else is about to happen.
That's the way I do it anyway, and it works fine.

[Ayuhra]

I always like to turn Praetorium into a bonding experience. Get everyone chatting and riffing during the cutscenes, ESPECIALLY if there is no new player bonus. We've managed to make an amusing outing for ourselves once it's over.

Yes, you can keep chats up during cutscenes.

[Aomine1992]

I see them nerfing exp like they did for pvp because of this rip to that good exp... wish you would have kicked them and not made a whole thread lol

[Macleod]

I always like to turn Praetorium into a bonding experience. Get everyone chatting and riffing during the cutscenes, ESPECIALLY if there is no new player bonus. We've managed to make an amusing outing for ourselves once it's over.

Yes, you can keep chats up during cutscenes.

I like doing this as well, but there's been quite a bit of times lately where I get these "mute" groups, no one chats, and it's completely boring. Maybe they were all PS4/controller players... /shrug

[CazzT]

You're making 7 other people carry you and making the encounter that much longer. You deserve the kick, right at the end too so you waste your time.

Good job ignoring literally everything before this. Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not defending the people AFKing. It's actually a little irritating that I even have to explain this since you couldn't even bother to read my post. Even the TLDR clearly is not defending AFK'ers. /facepalm

[Krotoan]

Good job ignoring literally everything before this. Go back and read what I wrote. I'm not defending the people AFKing. It's actually a little irritating that I even have to explain this since you couldn't even bother to read my post. Even the TLDR clearly is not defending AFK'ers. /facepalm

I did read what you wrote:

It's not like people haven't been saying this will happen. Make a bad change, the players will find a way to deal with the bad change.
Instead of punishing people for dealing with a horrible change, reverse the horrible change. This was never a problem when the cutscenes could be skipped.

Blaming the game for something players are doing. People were doing something undesirable before the cutscenes could be skipped: Rushing people through what is a sizeable chunk of the main story. Agreed this isn't optimal, but I will never excuse people doing rude things just because it's what's convenient and the system could be better.

"But teh new plaeyrses!" There's been plenty of suggestions that would favor the new players without hindering or impacting people who have already passed that point of the MSQ.
"No xpeez or rewardses then!" MSQ roulette had XP and rewards before the asinine change. Put them back to that level.

Yes, plenty of suggestions, lots of which involve entirely reworking old content that most players choose never to do again. But right now apparently the easiest solution was to make it not only optional for everyone who has passed that point in the story, but quite worth the time investment with little to no chance of failure.

But we've been round and round this merry-go-round since Jan/Feb of 2018 when they put this change in.


TLDR: Don't punish people for finding a way around a bad change. Fix the problem and people won't feel inclined to find a way around the problem.

I didn't want to start the argument about what was wrong with MSQ again, so I focused on your overall message:

It's SE's fault they did it this way, AFK'ers are just a result of their decision.


While you are not defending the people choosing to AFK you are saying that we should give consideration to the fact the encounter itself has great problems. I do not feel so. People who choose to do the cruddy thing are still choosing the cruddy thing, regardless of HOW cruddy the encounter it is they are making it worse.

[CazzT]

I did read what you wrote:

After I called you out for not doing that.

Blaming the game for something players are doing.

How did you get that I'm blaming the game? I'm pointing to the bad decision to change how it works. It's painfully clear that's what I'm blaming.

People were doing something undesirable before the cutscenes could be skipped: Rushing people through what is a sizeable chunk of the main story. Agreed this isn't optimal, but I will never excuse people doing rude things just because it's what's convenient and the system could be better.

This makes me believe you're lying about having read what I wrote. Because I addressed this, too.

Yes, plenty of suggestions, lots of which involve entirely reworking old content that most players choose never to do again. But right now apparently the easiest solution was to make it not only optional for everyone who has passed that point in the story, but quite worth the time investment with little to no chance of failure.

It was optional after you did it the first time even before the change. And what they did couldn't even be called a bandaid fix because it just led to other issues.

I didn't want to start the argument about what was wrong with MSQ again, so I focused on your overall message:

It's SE's fault they did it this way, AFK'ers are just a result of their decision.

Which is accurate. So why are you twisting what I've said into things I never said? I think you did want to turn this into an argument, else you wouldn't have twisted my words.

While you are not defending the people choosing to AFK you are saying that we should give consideration to the fact the encounter itself has great problems.

Which it does. As evidenced by the fact that people are AFKing instead of participating.

I do not feel so.

I can't even begin to fathom how you can't see the massive, glaring flaw.

People who choose to do the cruddy thing are still choosing the cruddy thing, regardless of HOW cruddy the encounter it is they are making it worse.

The EXP from the roulette is rather substantial. But in order to get that substantial reward, you must subject yourself to a non-interactive experience. Since people are logging in to PLAY THE GAME, but they're being offered a substantial reward that involves NOT playing the game, they are going to go into that content and seek the least frustrating way to proceed through it. This entire set up practically begs for people to AFK. People said this would happen right after this horrible change was made. It's now becoming an issue because more and more people are tired of queuing for a dungeon that they don't do anything in.

I really can't fathom how you can't see this flaw. And I can't figure out why you're trying to twist my words to say something I'm not saying. What I have said is clear. There's no way it could be misunderstood unless it was on purpose.

[wereotter]

Honestly, both instances just need to be reworked completely. There's not much of a reason for players to run that roulette after its been cleared as many view the experience reward to not be worth the time it takes to clear them.

My thoughts:

Half the enemy health in the dungeons and change it to a 4-man instance. There's no reason currently that any fight in either dungeon needs to be done in an 8-man party. This would allow both dungeons to exist in the 50/60/70 roulette. Which means as well, they should remove the in-dungeon cutscenes. The major story scenes should take place before entering queue into the dungeon and after you leave.

And maybe, since people are running these for experience, you buff the experience reward for the 50/60/70 roulette since it's pretty abysmal as it currently stands.

These aren't hard fixes, but they also to just seem to be low priority fixes.

[Krotoan]

After I called you out for not doing that.

I have no reason to lie about reading your post.

How did you get that I'm blaming the game? I'm pointing to the bad decision to change how it works. It's painfully clear that's what I'm blaming.

This makes me believe you're lying about having read what I wrote. Because I addressed this, too.

You can think I'm lying, or think that someone interpreted what you wrote incorrectly (which is entirely possible). I summed up what I thought of what you posted in my 2nd reply.

It was optional after you did it the first time even before the change. And what they did couldn't even be called a bandaid fix because it just led to other issues.

Just because a fix causes more issues doesn't make it entirely unnecessary. There were other options sure, but considering how little development time went into their fixes: Number adjusting, flag flagging, I'd say their fix was expedient enough for ancient content.

Which is accurate. So why are you twisting what I've said into things I never said? I think you did want to turn this into an argument, else you wouldn't have twisted my words.

I didn't come back with the "/facepalm". I'm fine just discussing things. I'm ready to drop this if you think I'm not worth the time.

Which it does. As evidenced by the fact that people are AFKing instead of participating.

If a law has a loophole that people utilize, those people are still jerks and should be treated as such.

I can't even begin to fathom how you can't see the massive, glaring flaw.

For someone who is calling reading comprehension into question you took this oddly. I said we should not temper punishing AFKs with the knowledge that the system has problems. I understand there are problems, I don't think they excuse the behavior at all.

The EXP from the roulette is rather substantial. But in order to get that substantial reward, you must subject yourself to a non-interactive experience. Since people are logging in to PLAY THE GAME, but they're being offered a substantial reward that involves NOT playing the game, they are going to go into that content and seek the least frustrating way to proceed through it. This entire set up practically begs for people to AFK. People said this would happen right after this horrible change was made. It's now becoming an issue because more and more people are tired of queuing for a dungeon that they don't do anything in.

I really can't fathom how you can't see this flaw. And I can't figure out why you're trying to twist my words to say something I'm not saying. What I have said is clear. There's no way it could be misunderstood unless it was on purpose.

Again, I understand the system has problems. But the players solution shouldn't be to do something reprehensible. It's to NOT do the dungeon. It's optional and as you've said, not enjoyable as part of the game for certain people. Twisting the blame to the devs for someone taking advantage of others isn't a stance I can get behind. People have pointed out that there are similarly rewarding instances that can be run in the same amount of time (barring queue time) that DO require active interaction.

To restate my position: There is no excuse for doing something as inconsiderate as AFK'ing while 7 other people (or less) do the work for you. Even if there is work to be done on the system, it does not excuse parasitic behavior. I also do not consider a rework of the 2 MSQ dungeons in question to be priority.