Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Kacho_Nacho]

Confessions needs to be changed. 10 seconds for a confession? Thats only useful if the party is taking too much damage or in savage content, but Medica, medica II, and C3 is enough to top everyone off without the use of Plenary indulgence... I mean, yea...really strong heal bomb boom. But outside of that, using an entire class mechanic toward one skill is stupid

Also, divine benison should not be tied down to the Lily system...imho

I feel the entire lilly system and its mashed on feel is due to white mages having all the tools they needed already. Think about it.

A white mage presumably can heal all current content without ever needing three lilies. Moreso, both confession and divine benison are only require one lily, a resource which is very easy to get.

Now, should confession stacks be only available for ten seconds? I think so. If the stacks lasted longer, white mages would rely on that one ability too much. As far as divine benison and the lily system, what else would you tie it to? It's not like it is a huge burden to get a lily.

[Akimori]

I*snip*

No WHM would ever rely on that single ability too much. It's obviously meant to be used as a last resort (sort of like Charybdis in O4S) when trying to get everyone back to max HP (or close to it) in the shortest amount of time possible because you know...heal bomb which the 60 sec CD is kinda justified? (I honestly would hope for it to be dropped to 45 secs)

Also, Confessions don't require lilies at all. Confession relies on C3, M2, and M actually healing someone. Im thinking of DB being throw on the tank before a pull or a tank buster. Its not hard to get lilies, no because of C1 and C2, a preventative measure, if you will. You know...something that can be used OUTSIDE of combat because as any WHM knows, you cant get lilies outside of combat even if you do heal the tank. You could just say "Get those lilies before the battle is over". I'd rather use Assize, Tetra, and Asylum with the lily's shorter CDs

[zuzu-bq]

Most big consecutive damage intervals are in windows smaller than 10 seconds anyways. You can always plan a good Plenary with it, even if it's one stack it will still be a good Plenary use. The short duration lets you not rely on it to heal now wait a lot of time and pop it to heal again. That alone would make the ability a lot stronger and act simmilar on how aoe shields do, except with a better control of it.

[Duraeus_Entenu]

I came late into this discussion, so I don't pretend to know all what's going on, but I would like to to say something.
I'm a Pure White Mage. Have been since I started this game (and this is my first MMORPG). I can't act like I don't think there's anything missing from the lineup, but at the same time, there hasn't been an RPG where being the healer was ever easy. Healers have the hardest job of them all, precisely because they have to focus on keeping their comrades alive.
The tank might seem like the martyr, but the tank is always given the ability to survive most situations on their own. In a knuckle-down, drag-out confrontation, though, they don't last unless someone's healing them.
The other healing classes, like Astrologer and Scholar, and certain other jobs that also have healing ability, can't focus on team survivability, because that's not their prime role.
The healer, the White Mage, is a pure job, in action as well as name. Survival as a lone White Mage; it's hard. I spent the first chunk of my gameplay on my own, no parties or groups or Free Companies, so I suffered, and died, a lot. A LOT. -.-' And I was told by many I should just cross-job, even a little, just to get the knowledge. But in my eyes, and based on my original intentions for my game career, I only wanted to be the one to patch people up and keep them going, because someone has to. I don't mean to get dramatic about this, like it's real life, but even in video games, the healer is the "bones" of the community (military speak). Without them and their specialization, it's not possible.
I remember seeing someone mention that as long as players make fewer mistakes, other jobs compensate for the lack of a pure healer. That may be true, but there are lots of ways to make mistakes, and lots of scenarios where mistakes get easier to make, even for seasoned players. Which is precisely why I prefer to be Pure White Mage. My job is easy: stand to the side, watch everyone, and keep them green. Put a protective spell and a helpful effect on them now and again, and generally just do everything in my power to make their job a little less stressful. My job is simple and focused. Willpower and wit is often what I've seen get me through my time in the game. Not just this game, but any game with a healing option. (I once played FF 1 with nothing but a team of White Mages; definitely possible). Anything else that helps that (like pumping up my Hand and Field classes to make items/equipment that helps keep players alive) is a plus.
I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome seeing more added to the job to make it more useful, but right now I'm doing fine with it as it is, and we all know how limited it already is.
That being said, my final message to Square Enix: don't take the job for granted. If it wasn't for the local "bones" topping off everyone's HP, player's wouldn't last long enough to enjoy the rest of the game. So if you can, do them a favour and help out the doc.

[HyoMinPark]

Oh, this thread is back.

[obligatory witty comment about a necro before I reply]

I'm a Pure White Mage. Have been since I started this game (and this is my first MMORPG). I can't act like I don't think there's anything missing from the lineup, but at the same time, there hasn't been an RPG where being the healer was ever easy. Healers have the hardest job of them all, precisely because they have to focus on keeping their comrades alive.

This game is not centered around healers being a “pure” healer—meaning that healers are not expected by the community to stand around and do nothing but heal—they are expected to contribute to damage in most types of content, with very few exceptions (e.g., being new to a fight).

Heals are extremely overpowered right now and healers have a ton of healing tools at their disposal, so healers that do not contribute to damage find themselves standing around 80% of the time in most content. Which means you are only active and participating in the content 20% of the time. No other role is allowed to be active 20% of the time, so it is unfair to the party you are in for you to perform in this way. Especially as you get to the higher levels (I see that you are listed as only being level 43; I’m not sure if this is accurate or not, but that is what your forum profile says)—you get more heals and more tools that makes healing even easier to do.

The other healing classes, like Astrologer and Scholar, and certain other jobs that also have healing ability, can't focus on team survivability, because that's not their prime role.

Uh, Astrologian and Scholar are also healers and can output just as much HPS as White Mage can. This last tier, AST actually overtook WHM as the prog healer because it could match WHM in HPS and contribute to raid damage with card buffs—Earthly Star blows anything WHM has out of the water, as does Essential Dignity.

I think you’re misinformed if you think AST/SCH cannot heal as much as a WHM can. WHM’s burst healing is not a very good utility in this game because it’s generally not even needed.

The healer, the White Mage, is a pure job, in action as well as name. Survival as a lone White Mage; it's hard. I spent the first chunk of my gameplay on my own, no parties or groups or Free Companies, so I suffered, and died, a lot. A LOT. -.-' And I was told by many I should just cross-job, even a little, just to get the knowledge. But in my eyes, and based on my original intentions for my game career, I only wanted to be the one to patch people up and keep them going, because someone has to. I don't mean to get dramatic about this, like it's real life, but even in video games, the healer is the "bones" of the community (military speak). Without them and their specialization, it's not possible.

I personally think you need more experience on the other healers and perhaps other roles to get a better understanding of how this game functions. You seem to have a lot of misconceptions—and more experience will help rectify that. You’ve barely started this game—if you are indeed level 43—so it’s hard for you to really make objective judgements on the healing requirements in this game, if this is the case.

I remember seeing someone mention that as long as players make fewer mistakes, other jobs compensate for the lack of a pure healer. That may be true, but there are lots of ways to make mistakes, and lots of scenarios where mistakes get easier to make, even for seasoned players. Which is precisely why I prefer to be Pure White Mage. My job is easy: stand to the side, watch everyone, and keep them green. Put a protective spell and a helpful effect on them now and again, and generally just do everything in my power to make their job a little less stressful. My job is simple and focused. Willpower and wit is often what I've seen get me through my time in the game. Not just this game, but any game with a healing option. (I once played FF 1 with nothing but a team of White Mages; definitely possible). Anything else that helps that (like pumping up my Hand and Field classes to make items/equipment that helps keep players alive) is a plus.

You don’t need a Pure Healer in this game because healing is so overpowered and outgoing damage is so weak and scripted that it’s just not necessary. At the higher levels, healers can heal content with mostly off-global heals like Earthly Star (AST) or Indomitability (SCH). In the hardest fights in the game, healers have maybe 50% healing casts if they are playing super safe/overhealing. So there is no need for a “pure” healing job in the sense of standing around and doing nothing but healing. This game just doesn’t call for that type of play like other MMOs may (I hear WoW healers generally spend more time healing, either because of less potent heals or more outgoing damage—I’m not sure because I don’t play WoW; just going off of what I have heard).

[Duraeus_Entenu]

I'm sorry. You seem to be under the impression I'm new to games in general (at least, that's how it seems to me).
I'm only new to THIS game in particular. I've played every Final Fantasy since I was little. Was the first major RPG I played.
I understand the other roles, AST, SCH, et al. And I've had the privilege of playing in raids, dungeons, and the like with these individuals. I know the rotations, I've learned about the"lily' thing long before I had a chance to experience it myself, and I know about the other jobs' capabilities as healers/potential healers.
Im not talking about the PpMP or the actual roster of abilities per job. I'm talking about HOW the average person is able to play the job of WHM.
The class is soft and squishy, meaning your HP is very low no matter what you do to bolster it, same goes for your ability to take damage. AST and SCH are better BALANCED, assuming the player doesn't focus on pure healing. I'm not denigrating people's ability as general or pro gamers, but I've had instances where even seasoned AST and SCH players screw up, forget about the healing aspect in the throes of their DPSing, and the WHM gets mobbed by every foe on the field. Tank becomes the enemy's bottom priority, and the DPSes don't seem to even notice their main lifeline is bum rushed. Suddenly, WHM dies, then a minute later, whole party dies, because noone brought any resurrection capacity or items to the table. Because noone is expecting to suddenly take on prime healer.
And for the comment that WHM has OP healing, I don't think so. I watch other healers, they seem to have the same issue I do: namely, the parties in question aren't coordinating, so we have to run into the fire, toss massive heals to rebalance everything, then PRAY that we can run out in time before pure hate comes our way. But, like I said, the others have a tendency(not a guarantee) to not notice. And anyway, I'm not talking about healers universally, I'm referring to the mindset of a pure healer. Of course if you focus on healing, you're gonna have the best healing ability. If you focused on pure damage, you'd have the best damage ability. But every class is balanced against each other, even if that means a job excels in one thing and little else. AST and SCH are balanced against WHM in their own way, but just as the tool best fits the hand of its maker, the job can be at its best or worst depending on the intent of the player using it. My focus was always WHM, my intention was to show the thread that WHM makes up for its shortcomings if handled right, and that other jobs, while the may borrow aspects from it, aren't imbalanced in their own right.

[HyoMinPark]

I'm sorry. You seem to be under the impression I'm new to games in general (at least, that's how it seems to me).
I'm only new to THIS game in particular. I've played every Final Fantasy since I was little. Was the first major RPG I played.

Your experience in those games does not make a huge difference, as this game plays differently from any other single-player RPG. Even the Final Fantasy ones. So it’s irrelevant how many years you have of playing healers in single-player games under your belt. This isn’t a single-player game, but an MMO; and it is designed differently and has different expectations from the community as a result.

I understand the other roles, AST, SCH, et al. And I've had the privilege of playing in raids, dungeons, and the like with these individuals. I know the rotations, I've learned about the"lily' thing long before I had a chance to experience it myself, and I know about the other jobs' capabilities as healers/potential healers.

Are you certain you understand them? Because I’m under the impression that you do not based on your prior comment. So either you’re not properly phrasing your arguments, or you’re under the impression that you’re informed but actually aren’t.

Are you a level 43 player or is your active character a low level alt? What is your experience (not the experience of others that have supposedly taught you, but your own)? Have you done level 70 content? What about high-end content for any of the level caps (50/60/70)—Ex primals, Savage raids, etc.?

The class is soft and squishy, meaning your HP is very low no matter what you do to bolster it, same goes for your ability to take damage. AST and SCH are better BALANCED, assuming the player doesn't focus on pure healing.

All healers are equally squishy. AST/SCH are not any more or less squishy than WHM. That said, you should only have aggro on things during solo quests/instances. In party comps, you should not be tanking anything. If you are, then the tank(s) in your group is/are failing at their role.

I'm not denigrating people's ability as general or pro gamers, but I've had instances where even seasoned AST and SCH players screw up, forget about the healing aspect in the throes of their DPSing, and the WHM gets mobbed by every foe on the field.

Some healers do not heal if their co-healer is invalidating their healing. If you are spamming heals to the point where it is causing your co-healer to do nothing than overheal, they may be under the impression that you would rather solo heal and opt to DPS instead. That’s what I do, because I don’t want to waste my MP on heals that aren’t doing anything thanks to an overzealous co-healer.

Again, if you are a WHM, you shouldn’t be tanking anything in party compositions. If you are, that is not the fault of your co-healers, but of the tanks.

Tank becomes the enemy's bottom priority, and the DPSes don't seem to even notice their main lifeline is bum rushed. Suddenly, WHM dies, then a minute later, whole party dies, because noone brought any resurrection capacity or items to the table. Because noone is expecting to suddenly take on prime healer.

Again, fault of the tank. If you get aggro, try to drag the mobs to the tank. Some healers run away with them, or they just stand around and let the mobs hit them. Bring them to the tank and see if they take the mob off of you.

And for the comment that WHM has OP healing, I don't think so. I watch other healers, they seem to have the same issue I do: namely, the parties in question aren't coordinating, so we have to run into the fire, toss massive heals to rebalance everything, then PRAY that we can run out in time before pure hate comes our way.

All of the healers have OP healing. If you find yourself to be struggling with healing, you either have the worst party that stands in everything, or you are severely undergeared to the point that it is negatively affecting your healing. The latter is easily rectified: keep your gear—especially your weapon—as close to up-to-level/up-to-date as you can.

Your declaration that healers are not overpowered currently in this game doesn’t give credence to your insistence that you know what you’re talking about.

And anyway, I'm not talking about healers universally, I'm referring to the mindset of a pure healer. Of course if you focus on healing, you're gonna have the best healing ability. If you focused on pure damage, you'd have the best damage ability. But every class is balanced against each other, even if that means a job excels in one thing and little else. AST and SCH are balanced against WHM in their own way, but just as the tool best fits the hand of its maker, the job can be at its best or worst depending on the intent of the player using it. My focus was always WHM, my intention was to show the thread that WHM makes up for its shortcomings if handled right, and that other jobs, while the may borrow aspects from it, aren't imbalanced in their own right.

Unfortunately, this is not true. AST/SCH currently dominate the meta raid scene because they offer something WHM does not: damage boosts to their party. With healing that is competitive against WHM—and toolkits that allow for better optimization when it comes to movement and GCD clipping caused by weaving oGCDs—they have been ahead of WHM for almost two expansions now. WHM was dominant in early HW because AST was broken to the point of being unplayable, and it was decent during Deltascape/Sigmascape because AST’s personal damage was so low thanks to constantly clipping its GCD with card mechanics. But WHM has never had an answer to SCH’s toolkit, nor to AST’s cards. And the most recent tier made that very obvious, especially when AST was preferred as the progression healer due to the fights being very heavy/punishing when it came to movement (and AST can move freely when they time their Lightspeed oGCD and/or have an easier time slidecasting compared to WHM).

So, no. I have to disagree that the healers aren’t imbalanced, as you say they are.

[Jollyy5]

...

This seems like bait.

[Ftail]

Uh, Astrologian and Scholar are also healers and can output just as much HPS as White Mage can.

I'm not going to speak for AST, but at least for SCH it has a lower HPS than WHM and that's a fact. The fact that WHM's extra HPS is not needed and SCH can get through all the savage tier raids having lower HPS, doesn't mean the WHM HPS advantage doesn't exist. Even if that advantage is completely useless. Also a food for thought, they brought up SCH's lack of HPS on the live-letter and said they would fix it. Even though I've never seen a fellow SCH complain about having lower HPS. WTF Square?

I agree with everything you've said, so the reason I quoted one sentence was to nitpick a single point. Even if that point isn't very important to the overall picture.

[Semirhage]

I'm not going to speak for AST, but at least for SCH it has a lower HPS than WHM and that's a fact. The fact that WHM's extra HPS is not needed and SCH can get through all the savage tier raids having lower HPS, doesn't mean the WHM HPS advantage doesn't exist. Even if that advantage is completely useless. Also a food for thought, they brought up SCH's lack of HPS on the livestream and said they would fix it. Even though I've never seen a fellow SCH complain about having lower HPS. WTF Square?

I agree with everything you've said, so the reason I quoted a couple sentences was to nitpick a single point. Even if that point isn't very important to the overall picture.

That's part of the equation, but I think efficiency also deserves a mention. Another major reason why WHM's higher potential HPS is not a real advantage is the lopsided concentration of kit efficiency. To simplify a bit, off-GCD abilities are "better" than GCDs. They're instant, free (or marginally priced), and allow the user to continue uninterrupted. Healing-wise, the more powerful part of SCH's kit is the "good" half, and the more powerful part of WHM's kit is the "bad" half, i.e. the less efficient heals you want to rely on last.