Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[Kaitoo]

Also Mr.Happy pointed out, that they could make the classes two button each and people would still find a way to f it up. There will always be the player skill variable

Doesnt that mean the game would be "too hard" with only 2 buttons cause people f up their rotation by that logic and they need to simplfy it?
I dont get what some of your guys argue here, obviously skill level of every individual person on planet earth is different. However you still draw the line somewhere and thats the discussion, did you never play another videogame before?
Most of the most played videogames have quite the difficulty curve in comparison.

[galbsadi]

.snip.

Hi there. I didn't play WoW in the original classic, but I did play in BC, and Wrath, and Cata, and MoP, and a bit of WoD, and Legion, and even a bit of BFA (or, short version: I've played literally every expansion that game has to offer). The problem with the latest expansion has nothing to do with difficulty...RNGforAzeroth isn't any easier or harder than Legion was, and Legion was awesome. It's not really any easier or harder than MoP was, and MoP wasn't bad. it's slightly easier than Cata was, and Cata sucked. It's slightly easier than Wrath was, and Wrath was awesome. It's slightly easier than BC was, and BC wasn't bad. So, it's not a difficulty thing...more of a "everything is RNG" now thing...the only way it'd be worse is if it had an actual cash shop for your daily loot boxes. (For people who've only played FFXIV, the problem with WoW nowadays is that it's Eureka. [Yes, it's THAT bad.]).

Classic might be mildly successful, and I would be surprised to see it completely flop...because there's going to at least be a nostalgia effect for some people and others will want to see things they might have missed (such as 40m Naxx). However, I would be just as surprised to see it be a 'huge success.' If that was to be the case, the private servers that have been up for over a decade (and don't require a $15/mo sub to play) would have been far more active than they were when I visited them.

Now, as to your original complaint...this game isn't really easier or harder than WoW's been at any point, at least at the base level. (Note: while I say this as a player with very little Savage experience in FFXIV, I also say it as a player with extensive raid experience in WoW (in multiple expansions), ESO, and SWTOR.) Remember that in WoW people literally rely on applets (DBM, OmniCC, GTFO, WeakAuras, etc.) in order to play content above the base level...and content at the base level is about on par with FFXIV base level content (i.e. dungeons are about the same difficulty [although in WoW it's more focus on healing and FFXIV it's more focus on Healer DPS], 24m are about the same difficulty as LFR [up to and including that in many cases you could practically AFK through it], 8m normal raids are about on par with normal raids in WoW (i.e. not hard), and the challenge primarily exists in areas that most people don't do (like Savage/Ultimate in FFXIV and early-tier Heroic and Mythic raids in WoW). SWTOR is the same way. GW2...same way. TERA was the same way (when it was good). TSW was the same way...that's how MMOs work, it's how they've always worked, and it's likely how they'll continue to work into the foreseeable future.

If it's not your thing, I get that...and you can either not focus on that content or find something else that you will enjoy....but let's not try and ruin a formula that clearly works just because there are things that appeal to more casual players.

[Melichoir]

If you don't think Classic is going to be huge success, you're not very aware.

While Im sure classic will be fun and draw certain crowds, you should be also taking it with a grain of salt due to two very big factors.

1) People are broadly dissatisfied with the current state of WoW. It doesnt live up to their expectations or interests. So anything that isnt the current state of wow will get boosted. This includes classic.
2) People are nostalgic for those halcyon days of their youths when they played classic WoW. This usually means people dont remember or downplay the bad parts of Vanilla WoW. They have rose tinted glasses on.

Im sure classic will be successful, atleast at first. But I have trouble seeing it 'smash' everything. Afterall, all Classic is is a repackaged version of Vanilla. Nothing 'new' will be brought to the table. And while it will be fun, people will reach it's end game and thatll be it. There is no where for it to go. And if people are looking at it wtih Rose Tinted specs, then theyll hit their satisfaction faster than someone whos playing through it new.

[Reeereee]

The irony here is what really separates FFXIV from WoW is the casual content. When the Golden Saucer was packed for the FF15 crossover you never see anything like that in WoW. The story is much better and accessible to everyone. I can have a house with an aquarium filled with fish I caught? I can choose from multiple idling animations? A new hairstyle nearly every major patch?

FFXIV distinguishes itself from WoW primarily by doing casual content with excellence.

If what I wanted was just super hard content then yeah, would go play +25 dungeons and mythic raids from WoW.

[SaitoHikari]

So I decided to look up OP's records.

...You haven't actually done any of the Savage raids. So I'm not sure you're really qualified to be saying that the game is too easy, when you haven't stepped foot into the hardest content the game has to offer.

---

I came from a game that pretty much had nothing but raids to look forward to at endgame. Since then, I've come to view FFXIV's apparent, uh, casual-ness as a necessity for maintaining growth in the community. My previous game stagnated hard, because when you make a raid-oriented game, it turns out that eventually growth just stops because the established raid community acts as their own entry barrier. Whether it be cliques, expectations, or even market manipulation. A game centered towards raids more or less means you can't really get anything worthwhile done if you don't play in the same peak hours as the majority of the raiding community either.

[Joven]

Umm...

Excuse me?

I'm talking about the people who complain that they can't spend time playing a video game, so demand that the game be changed to fit around their schedule.

The people who forget that most people have lives outside of playing games, people have jobs and families and other real life commitments and still find time to play a video game (In a genre that's literally about spending a lot of time playing a game - Not just the RPG genre but the MMO one too) and think that they're so special that the game MUST be reduced down to content that takes very little time to do because they can't manage their time enough to afford to invest time into leisure activities.

These are different to people who may simply be casual players, that maybe don't play every day of the week because they've actually managed their life around being able to actually play video games instead of crying until video games are catered around their own poor life management. Most casual players don't whine about how they don't have time to commit to gaming, they just enjoy themselves in content they can do in the time they have available.

It's the vocal ones that whine and moan about being "Excluded" from content and demand that things become easier and faster so they can complete it without putting in any time or effort (Which is a bizarre stance to take when attempting to play massive timesink games like MMORPG's) that are the ones I was denouncing.

Then you should have said then what you just said now instead of generalizing a whole group of players by just saying 'Casuals'.

[Kaitoo]

So I decided to look up OP's records.

...You haven't actually done any of the Savage raids. So I'm not sure you're really qualified to be saying that the game is too easy, when you haven't stepped foot into the hardest content the game has to offer.

That has nothing to do with ops claim and is gatekeeping. Its also kinda silly, along of the lines of you need to a filmmaker to critize star wars or something

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That has nothing to do with ops claim and is gatekeeping. Its also kinda silly, along of the lines of you need to a filmmaker to critize star wars or something

Except this is different. Hard content exists. Saying the game is easy when never having done any of said content is like saying building rockets and spaceships is easy without ever having been an aerospace engineer.

Your example fails because movies are watchable content. You can critizice the acting, script and such after watching it if there were things you didn't like. What is closer to the topic is saying "star wars is terrible" without ever having watched any of the movies.

The story is easy, like most final fantasy games. Then you have the extra content, which is harder, also like most final fantasy games.

[Skyclaw726]

thats a fallacy you actually pointed out yourself.
How is game good designed if you need to go out of your way to find challenge? Imagine playing a jrpg were you snoozing through 90% of the game and only the super bosses are in the vicinity of being a threat
Masterfull game design
its also a strawman, the thread doesnt say there is no challenging content in the game. Thats not the same thing as the base game feeling to easy.

You mean every Final fantasy game I II and XI being the exception?
Challenge is subjective what i find easy someone else might find hard. Take Dark souls for example, a Friend of mine struggles each time on Abyss Watchers but can easily beat Aldritch while i'm the opposite. There are plenty of instances in rthis game where i struggle, like whenever fighting a Chimera type enemy, despite playing since ARR's Beta i have never been able to deal with those enemies gracefully, i always mess up, but there are plenty of bosses i can do flawlessly while the rest of my group flounders.

When you make a game like this you have to cater for everyones skill level and lets face it the vast majority of people don't have hotbars scattered all over their screen with hundreds of macros, i've been playing MMO's since 2004 and i still can't understand macros. Steps of Faith was a massive wall for people back in the day imagine if every dungeon was like that.

[SaitoHikari]

That has nothing to do with ops claim and is gatekeeping. Its also kinda silly, along of the lines of you need to a filmmaker to critize star wars or something

It's not gatekeeping to ask for one's experience, to counteract an argument made by someone making such a sweeping statement about the game's design without actually experiencing the very content that runs counter to the argument.

And I hope you realize that game design and watching a movie are two entirely different concepts. One requires actual effort, effort that the OP apparently hasn't put forth.