Healer boycott in 5.0

[dezzmont]

Shadowflare wasn't just an AOE ability. It and energy drain pushed scholar to have significantly higher potency over a minute than white mage, which was problematic because scholar was good enough at healing to make the difference in healing output irrelevant. There was no way Sch was getting to another expansion with the DPS, utility, Nd healing it had. And because making a healer unable to keep up healing for some content is unacceptable, and scholar had a core identity of utility, the dps abilities had to go.

I actually wince when people say protect going away is dumbing down content. Protect only affects overworld content in any meaningful way, so it going away just means you no longer need to cast a spell once a run just to cast it. Like if you find the interaction of protect and rezzes seriously interesting that is... valid? But I don't think most people would want things to be designed to your tastes.

I don't think most people care about potency that much. That matters, but only if you are really petty about not being the best at everything or if the gap is huge. For most people who care about potency they will just change to the higher potency healer, nbd, and people who just are salty scholar isn't the king of healers should 100% be ignored. The bigger question is 'what will healers be doing in fights?' Scholar had a lot going on in addition to its rotation but unlike astro it didn't do most of its things all the time, but in reaction to events, so it having similar downtime to astro MIGHT be a problem. Astro got more complex in almost every way but people have an anchoring bias so it is understandable that cards that SEEM to have more diverse effects would be better than cards that all do the same thing. Trying to card match while also getting a card good for your best dps actually requires more thought than the old system because it can actually require mid fight judgement calls as you are now judging cards along two axises that are competing and risk losing an axis if you reroll for the other.

But a lot of the way healers play really comes down to fight design. The more I read arguments for healer panic, the less convinced I am, because I read the concerns and only have the conclusion of "why do you care?"

Is miasma+bio actually more interesting than a single spell? You tossed em both out together immediately every time anyway... you didn't lose a choice or something to think about, you lost a button... No one liked drawing spire or ewer, they were straight dps losses you mindlessly threw out or converted, a purely player negative rng. Ect. And a complex rotation would require a lot of oGcd things to make healing complex, meaning that old SCH rotation wasnt just oppressive for its dps but because it locks them out of making content with more intense healing requirements.

[althenawhm]

Shadowflare wasn't just an AOE ability. It and energy drain pushed scholar to have significantly higher potency over a minute than white mage, which was problematic because scholar was good enough at healing to make the difference in healing output irrelevant. There was no way Sch was getting to another expansion with the DPS, utility, Nd healing it had. And because making a healer unable to keep up healing for some content is unacceptable, and scholar had a core identity of utility, the dps abilities had to go.

How about instead of nerfing jobs to make them equal, why not BUFF jobs to make them equal?

[Jonnycbad]

Are we only at the boycott stage of grief? I thought we'd be at the "Open Letter to Yoshi P about XXX and why I'm unsubbing" stage by now

[Ceasaria]

Scholar clearly lost a lot, Shadow flare, miasma, energy drain. 63 casts in all. The most of any healer. Sch is the most unbalanced healer when it comes to damage. (which is why ast was created with only 2 rotational dps spells)

It was 3 (2 DoT and Malefic) + 1 with Aero.

The reason of why so few dps skills is because the other ressources to manage were not evident. In particular, the cards, without a doubt the most complicated system to learn and master that a job has in this game. Add to this the lowest mana ressource, the incapacity to move during Collective Unconscious during max 3 sec (to proc effect) during HW, and you know why SE has not opted for a longer rotation dps.

During SB, the dps rotation has decreased but the cards system has increased in complexity, same for the healing kit with Earthly Star (capacity to predict / know what mechanic will come and put ES to the exact seconde for perfect use).

For ShB, the cards system has completely lost his complexity and it will not be shifted in any part of the AST kit (maybe a tiny bit in the double stances abilities, that's all).

For SCH, at the contrary, for me, the complexity to manage dps rotation will be shift in all his other parts of his kit. With so many tools at his disposal (compared to other healers), which remind me more of HW time, I will have fun to manage them all, I guess.

[dezzmont]

How about instead of nerfing jobs to make them equal, why not BUFF jobs to make them equal?

Because that isn't how game design works like at all. You can't just buff things, nerfs are important too in order to keep things working in a sane manner.

Buffing WHM to have a reasonable amount of potency per minute, taking into account that it can't move and heal or dps as easily as scholar and isn't tossing out a 300 potency heal for free every 3 seconds, would require its potency to probably hit 11,000 or even 12,000 per minute, which is 3,000-4,000 potency over what it currently has per minute, which is a titanic jump that would impact healer balance in way more unpredictable ways than simply making it so scholar loses 1200 potency a minute in energy drain and shadowflare. You would be massively increasing the variance in DPS from burst windows, for example, which would unduly hit the lower DPS jobs if WHM in optimal conditions could get 4k more potency simply to account for the fact that at most times conditions aren't optimal and they are losing DPS to casting heals while Scholars do so less often. Due to the nature of the fairy, a simple potency buff to WHM (and probably Astro, because otherwise it would be left behind) would have to be extreme, while a potency nerf to Scholar keeps the healers at about the same level they are DPS wise and doesn't force content to assume healers are optimally DPSing, which allows content to be more rough on actual healing.

The scope of Scholar's superiority goes far beyond just the fact its raw DPS is higher, which it is. The fairy is in most ways an upgrade to regen (83 potency a second compared to 50 as long as you macro Eos right, AND you don't need to waste a cast on medica), scholars have more utility options, scholars have more oGCDs they can weave than white mage (Not counting aetherflow options as more than three oGCDs because they all effectively have 3 charges coming back every minute, which has obvious advantages), amazing mitigation, ect. You can't realistically make any healer good as long as scholar is good at so many things in ways that don't really have downsides besides difficulty of execution, which while more challenging than other healers isn't THAT challenging.

The idea Scholars are unduly mechanically gutted is transparently false, and the continued focus on that aspect of what happened to healers is what makes me frown more and more reading these threads when you consider what scholar is compared to Astro and especially White Mage. Downtime concerns, the fact that scholar was about oGCD offensive weaving and now it isn't, and the fact that healing complexity in most content may not rise to account for the fact that DPS abilities are slightly less interesting are pretty valid complaints, but I mostly see people saying "Scholars are worse MECHANICALLY now" and to that I say 'Good. Scholar deserved it, and it isn't reasonable to expect scholar to have all these strengths going forward.'

There is a difference between saying "I don't like how I lost the ability to tactically choose between healing and DPS with aetherflow, " and "My potency is lower despite deserving to be lower!"

[Vivian_Vex]

Are we only at the boycott stage of grief? I thought we'd be at the "Open Letter to Yoshi P about XXX and why I'm unsubbing" stage by now

At least it seems like the number of people uncontrollably foaming at the mouth seem to be dying off finally.

Though I have seen one or two "I'm not playing Shadow Bringers" threads.

[Fellgon]

Criticism is one thing. I could handle criticism. Which a few threads have actually been productive and given constructive criticism, and provided actual feedback. Not sat around throwing a fit at the level of my 4 year old when she doesn’t get her way.

Most of us are adults and are capable of calm rational thought and actual feedback. Yes this is a product, but consumers have to keep in mind that a product like this has to take chances and risks and sometimes thing dont go their way and take more time then it should. This dev team has gone out it’s way to fulfill nearly every request we have to sit here and bash then over and over is ridiculous and anyone who cant see that needs psychiatric care.

I Agree! Know what? These changes will be great. I been watching letter from producer, and so far theres nothing there that i dislike. Need see the game for a new perspective, new learning, new story...lets stop compare this game to others mmo, this game its unike! There so mutch complaining that i bet if someone had chance to meet yoshi p personaly, you woulnt criticize him with so mutch fury, im fact i bet you guys would say: "wow yoshi p i love the game! Could you give me a picture?"

I cant complain yoshi p work, because i have no clue how create a game like pac-man in my house...so i have no right to say hes doing a bad job. This is not a game created with 4, 6 people in backyard. This a huge game that need only the best employes that work with theys best effort and with preasure too, and love for the game. Many of the have made ajustment to game beyond the working hour.

[kidalutz]

I play since ARR to SB I mained as it follows:
ARR: Brd back then due the movement + able to buff party members + very nice dps.
HW: Hated the casting brd so leveled it through lvling roulettes xD pre 52. But I loved Astro since it was a different healer from the other 2.
SB: I loved Rdm a lot as soon I saw the trailer.
SBh: Dancer really caught my eye.
But no matter wich job I play I ALWAYS end playing Smn/sch so I guess those are my mains.
I personally play the 3 roles with friends so we sync our jobs/roles accordly I already told them I'm not playing healer or tank until I get at least 2 80s (dnc/nin) xD and since I heal most of the time they are OK with it.
More than boycott I say people will do it directly or indirectly.
1. Due new content people are more afraid to test stuff with responsability roles = tank/healer.
2. Since we will get 4 tanks and 1 starting at 60 people will be more into tanking than healing.
3. It's always better to use MSQ exp boost to dps than healers.
4. Dislike the changes of healers overall (except whm and I even see whms complaining so...).
5. With the "trust" system even if it is 71+ dungeons + palace of the dead/high above people will go mostly for their dps.
The bottleneck will happend on endgame content 5.0-5.1 that it will be to hard to find healers since most of us will play dps xD
so my advice would be:
Coordinate with your friends/mates for role rotations and play together than go forever alone (unless you are a healer/tank) because
THE LONG QUEUES ARE COMMING! xD

I think you're sorely overestimating the number of people who wont heal.

[miraidensetsu]

Well, from what I saw, WHM will be roughly the same. Lost some things, gained others, continue to have the same problem he had (no utility), but it will have a shiny new toy (that promotes overhealing, but will add some complexity to WHM's rotation) that will be nerfed in some point of ShB (900 pot? I doubt it will be this way for long)... I see no reason for not healing at ShB.

I really apreciate those AiN bonus for healers.

[Roy_M]

I think you're sorely overestimating the number of people who wont heal.

It's the same every expansion people will go for dps first and 90-120 queues for dps will come. People are betting on Trusts but I'm almost sure that it will crash faster than Rau Savage. Anyhow I hope to be mistaken but sadly it won't be the case for the reason I mentioned and many more there shouldn't be many healers around (even less than tanks).