Why was Living Dead not removed?

[Danelo]

Have any of you seen the Familtsu's Shadowbringers Media Tour Interview transcript?:

Q: It'll take too long to discuss every job like this, so are there any other notable considerations you made?
Yoshida: There was also the debate over the oft-suggested BLM Raise.

Q: Because the other ranged magical DPS, SMN and RDM, both have their own raise actions, right? I think there are some that want one for BLM, and some that don't...
Yoshida: Just as an example, what if BLM's raise action was based on destructive power, and raised the target at 1 HP with the Walking Dead status? But in that case, healers would definitely complain... We thought of several ideas, including ones to increase the penalty for raising, but all of them resulted in "No one would use it then."

Really!!!? I'm confused. LD/WD is such an disappointing and unusable mechanic that you are willing to disallow it to be used for a BLM, mainly because it would be drawback to bringing the job (that is Yoshi P's main) and healer's wouldn't like it so ppl wouldn't use it BUT IT'S OKAY TO LEAVE AS IS FOR DARK KNIGHT????!

Ultimately, blm raise was debated and devs decided to go a different direction. But it seems that Yoshi P would have said no to WD style raise being implemented for the simple fact that it is unduely punishing compared to all the other raise abilities with in the ranged magic jobs. Hmmmm...

[Keagian]

Honestly they should just remove the death penalty from Walking Dead and instead make it so that all of DRK's attack's lifesteal HP back while being invulnerable to damage but can't be healed for the duration. As long as each attack heals for 75% of the DRKs damage potency, it wouldn't be hard for DRKS to get back to 50-75% HP. Having a visual effect to let healers know that they can't heal the DRK by having some sort of bright purple aura around the DRK would allow them to ignore the DRK for the duration of Walking Dead, this way it would actually help healers save on MP and have the skill rely solely on the DRK's own abilities and resources to get back to a healthy position.

The fact that Living Dead requires a healers intervention and taxes them, is part of the reason why it's considered a bad invulnerability skill. If I used Living Dead and died to Walking Dead then it would be on me for not using my resources to get myself back up to a healthy HP line. Currently Living Undead punishes both the tank and healer if all requirements aren't met and I hate having an ability that puts pressure on my teammates.

[Maneesha]

You shouldn't NEED to use a macro in order to use a skill effectively. Especially, considering none of the other classes have an invuln skill that require that high a level of communication between tank and healer. Does not seem very fair.

you are right, you don't have to use a macro, you simply need a healer who knows how to deal with it, the macro is more or less just a small sound/visual indicator that you used the skill,everything else is up to the healers. even i get asked sometimes to use a macro for holmgang if i don't verbally communicate the use of the skill in a voice chat program(in case we are using one), because i often switch the macro out for all other content.
let me say it in another way, a tank actually only needs to tell his party that he used an invuln skill. the healers should know the different effects of invuln skills and how to handle them and then decide if they want to make full use of the skill or not(since you used the skill and didn't die, you did all that is required from you). so yes you don't need "complicated" macros, but maybe one that can server as a "notification" (visual in-chat or sound).

[Freyyy]

Honestly they should just remove the death penalty from Walking Dead and instead make it so that all of DRK's attack's lifesteal HP back while being invulnerable to damage but can't be healed for the duration. As long as each attack heals for 75% of the DRKs damage potency, it wouldn't be hard for DRKS to get back to 50-75% HP. Having a visual effect to let healers know that they can't heal the DRK by having some sort of bright purple aura around the DRK would allow them to ignore the DRK for the duration of Walking Dead, this way it would actually help healers save on MP and have the skill rely solely on the DRK's own abilities and resources to get back to a healthy position.

This sounds cool I really dig this.

[KatsuraJun]

The cooldown and, to a much lesser extent, duration is the only thing that truly matters for these skills, so it's actually better than hg really.
Holm is in a class of its own because of the 3 minute cd and it frankly should have been nerfed to 4 if you ask me, but eh.

[ADVSS]

Honestly they should just remove the death penalty from Walking Dead and instead make it so that all of DRK's attack's lifesteal HP back while being invulnerable to damage but can't be healed for the duration. As long as each attack heals for 75% of the DRKs damage potency, it wouldn't be hard for DRKS to get back to 50-75% HP. Having a visual effect to let healers know that they can't heal the DRK by having some sort of bright purple aura around the DRK would allow them to ignore the DRK for the duration of Walking Dead, this way it would actually help healers save on MP and have the skill rely solely on the DRK's own abilities and resources to get back to a healthy position.

The fact that Living Dead requires a healers intervention and taxes them, is part of the reason why it's considered a bad invulnerability skill. If I used Living Dead and died to Walking Dead then it would be on me for not using my resources to get myself back up to a healthy HP line. Currently Living Undead punishes both the tank and healer if all requirements aren't met and I hate having an ability that puts pressure on my teammates.

Unlike SE I always thought this was thematic for drk, that and having high self sustain via life steal

[DemonicNeko]

Honestly they should just remove the death penalty from Walking Dead and instead make it so that all of DRK's attack's lifesteal HP back while being invulnerable to damage but can't be healed for the duration. As long as each attack heals for 75% of the DRKs damage potency, it wouldn't be hard for DRKS to get back to 50-75% HP. Having a visual effect to let healers know that they can't heal the DRK by having some sort of bright purple aura around the DRK would allow them to ignore the DRK for the duration of Walking Dead, this way it would actually help healers save on MP and have the skill rely solely on the DRK's own abilities and resources to get back to a healthy position.

The fact that Living Dead requires a healers intervention and taxes them, is part of the reason why it's considered a bad invulnerability skill. If I used Living Dead and died to Walking Dead then it would be on me for not using my resources to get myself back up to a healthy HP line. Currently Living Undead punishes both the tank and healer if all requirements aren't met and I hate having an ability that puts pressure on my teammates.

Now that totally sound like a dark knight ability.

Unlike SE I always thought this was thematic for drk, that and having high self sustain via life steal

I know right. Dark Knights where sold as this heavy dps life strealing tank.

[ADVSS]

Now that totally sound like a dark knight ability.



I know right. Dark Knights where sold as this heavy dps life strealing tank.

I mean if you got technical the DRK typically did this, and usually sacrificed health to deal damage, but given the fact that its a tank in this game, the least they could do is give it some good "Blood Sword"/Drain. To add to the above mentioned suggestion, I think that healing during that time should restore some mp to the DRK instead of do nothing at all, making it easier to self heal or something. Either way I think it would be a nice "thematic" change to LD that makes it useful.

[Lyth]

...

I missed this, and it's a really interesting point. I really want to see the devs formally state their views on invulnerabilities and whether they have plans to re-evaluate them. Because these are some of the worst double standards that we've seen.

...

I did read your post. As a matter of fact, I've been making the case for Living Dead to be changed for two expansions now.

The effective duration is important because a lot of people misinterpret Living Dead to mean that you have 20 seconds of invulnerability. It isn't. It's flat out inferior to Holmgang, both in terms of average effective duration and effective recast, with an obnoxious death penalty that nobody wants to deal with, no UI depiction of the remaining healing required to cleanse the effect, and blatantly incorrect tooltips.

But these people think it's fine, so it must be fine. Right?

Because it's fine.

Because it's a good skill.

No ulterior motives here.

[DemonicNeko]

I missed this, and it's a really interesting point. I really want to see the devs formally state their views on invulnerabilities and whether they have plans to re-evaluate them. Because these are some of the worst double standards that we've seen.

I did read your post. As a matter of fact, I've been making the case for Living Dead to be changed for two expansions now.

The effective duration is important because a lot of people misinterpret Living Dead to mean that you have 20 seconds of invulnerability. It isn't. It's flat out inferior to Holmgang, both in terms of average effective duration and effective recast, with an obnoxious death penalty that nobody wants to deal with, no UI depiction of the remaining healing required to cleanse the effect, and blatantly incorrect tooltips.

But these people think it's fine, so it must be fine. Right?




No ulterior motives here.

ok I see what happen. Sorry about the miss understanding. I am sorry I made my comment out of not understand what you where saying. I made a comment about those guys who are saying it a good skill. It still gets me mad that they would say it a good skill.