Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

[Rahspdoy]

Though I feel for the loss in complexity for you, isn't it now more about how you use your existing kit to consistently keep the highest damaging party members buffed? Or vice versa take the risk at buffing those mot doing enough to try and level out the outgoing DPS?

Thats the thing though, This new system, cares absolutely 0 about 'who' you cast the one single buff on, because now instead of 'fishing for balance'. The 0.01% meta-players are 'fishing for seals' now. Give them enough time and thei'll be complaining about THAT small amount of RNG.

Wait.. they already are, because their bringing up the fact that you can 'use' 9 cards in the time it takes for that 3 minute cooldown to finish, meaning your almost guaranteed to already have 3 'unique' seals ready to use it again.

The 'entire' card system is gutted. 100% totally gone.

The Dev team could have saved themselves work-time by simply giving us a single buff skill with 3 charges we can use, and a 3 minute cool-down thats a 'bigger' version of that exact same buff. And you'd have the exact same effect this 'new' system gives. But then... could they still call it an Astrologian at that point?

The 1 single thing that set AST apart from being 'just another whm', has been reduced down to 2 skills the WHM doesn't have. Thats the 1 and only difference between them now. Excluding the fact that whm's heals are still, and will always be, more powerful.

[SkyEdge1]

The 1 single thing that set AST apart from being 'just another whm', has been reduced down to 2 skills the WHM doesn't have. Thats the 1 and only difference between them now. Excluding the fact that whm's heals are still, and will always be, more powerful.

I see, while I don't really know how to feel one way or the other, since again I dont play healer. I can definitely appreciate the loss of a real identity for AST. Hopefully though, since the Healers section of the community is in a pretty big uproar, they will be quick to address it within that 4 to 6 week period where adjustments are done early. Given that healer balance was their big driving force this expac one can expect a lot of pressure on the development team to respond to concerns.

[ElZombo]

Ever had this as a baby? They were preparing you for Shadowbringers Astrologian all along! Although i hope they simplify this i can't deal with FOUR seals

[kobe-sabi]

i just want my cards back, i never just played Balance, i always played every card, if im not royal road it, im saving a card for emergency TP/MP, turning cards to a straight dps attack or heal. the only time i cared for a balance is when the boss is being pulled and everyone is going for that burst of damage because everything either has a dps check that wipes the group, or people are trying to push a phase.

[Rahspdoy]

I see, while I don't really know how to feel one way or the other, since again I dont play healer. I can definitely appreciate the loss of a real identity for AST. Hopefully though, since the Healers section of the community is in a pretty big uproar, they will be quick to address it within that 4 to 6 week period where adjustments are done early. Given that healer balance was their big driving force this expac one can expect a lot of pressure on the development team to respond to concerns.

Gonna quote someone from my own personal thread on Astro changes to give you a bit to think about.

Would you agree if SE did the following changes:
DRG to only have Spineshatter Dive as their only jump.
NIN with Suiton as their only Ninjutsu.
BRD Mage's Ballad as their only song.
SAM Midare Setsugekka as their only Iaijutsu

You said you played DPS, but didnt specify which.. so this ^ is just a rough 'picture'.

Take whatever DPS class you play, find the 1 'big damage' ability you have. Then remove every single other 'ability' you have to use thats even remotely similar to it. And leave yourself with 'only' that 1 ability and your standard DPS rotation combo. Would the class still be fun to play?

That is essentially what they did to Astro. They removed every single 'other' ability we had with the cards, and left us with just 1.

[Suishouhime]

I agree with you that its imbalanced, but I think the main reason they balance base on those high end players is because it matter at that point.

It matters at all points. Just because non-Savage content isn't parsed or optimised doesn't mean that content is worthless; in fact, the entire appeal of FFXIV is in how accessible it is to casual players, because there's so much content for them to do. Why is "I want to have fun playing this game with a class that feels enjoyable" any less valuable a goal than "I want to make my FFLog numbers slightly bigger for 1% of the available content"?

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Your attitude of saying that only the meta Savage playstyle "matters" is the problem. Making design decisions that ruin the fun for 99% of people just to inflate rDPS numbers that're recorded on software that's technically banned by the game is farcical, and that's why it's being met with such resistance by people actually playing this class.

Can you imagine if someone watched GDQ and decided that, because the speedrunning community uses a skip to optimise completion speed, they should patch out every part of the game that was skipped by those speedrunners? Sure, it's more efficient, but it would completely miss the point of why most (non-speedrunning) people play those games, and also undermine the skill behind what the speedrunners do. Everyone would lose out.

Maybe a more relevant example: does completing the ARR/HW Savage raids unsynched give the same satisfaction as completing them synched? Does having higher rDPS for unsynched Savage content make it more fun, just because the numbers are bigger? Does skipping a phase unsynched make you feel just as skilled as skipping it synched? If "no", you already acknowledge that simply having bigger numbers for your FFLogs isn't what matters - it's the experience of actually playing engaging content which challenges you that matters.

The challenge of AST in Savage content, then, was to aim for an ideal Balance while also making sure you get at least some utility out of your cards, regardless of whether it was a Balance or not. Replacing that split-second improvisation with a mindless "ranged or melee" binary decision might result in more consistently high rDPS, but it doesn't feel earned. It doesn't feel like you had any input. It doesn't feel like your skill level made any difference. You might as well have not been there.

[Ceasaria]

In dungeon for big pull, what I love to do with AST is :
1) Largess, Aspected Benefic + Collective Unconscious + Eye for an Eye + Time Dilatation on tank
2) Arrow double duration or enhanced on me
3) Lucid Dream, Lightspeed
4) Celestial Opposition to stun mobs + add time on every buff from me
5) Spam Gravity

In Shadowbringers, I will feel powerless.

[SkyEdge1]

It matters at all points. Just because non-Savage content isn't parsed or optimised doesn't mean that content is worthless

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying. Your attitude of saying that only the meta Savage playstyle "matters" is the problem. there.

So just to be clear, as you seem to have taken what I've said in a far more negative way than what I probably intended. I AGREE with you in that it should matter at all points in the game, I merely stated that I THINK they balance from the top down, which is why I said that until raids hit it will be hard to see the overall performance or any major adjustments. Want to be clear I agree with your sentiment and frustrations. Also i NEVER once said that ONLY the Savage meta matters. I merely said that it does matter especially in regards to balance changes.
It's not an attitude problem of mine as I've already stated many times that a lot of my perspective comes from not playing healer but other roles. Though my opinion may not carry as much weight as others with years of healer under their belt, it was only given as an opinion not a statement of fact.
However anyone that says, "savage doesn't matter because only a few people do it " are just as culpable as those who would say "it only matters in savage." Which again to be clear was not my intent and I apologize if that's what it sounded like I was stating.

[Rahspdoy]

However anyone that says, "savage doesn't matter because only a few people do it " are just as culpable as those who would say "it only matters in savage." Which again to be clear was not my intent and I apologize if that's what it sounded like I was stating.

I think the 'only' savage/vs non-savage comment that shouldn't ever be made is when it comes out in the form of "well this one ability is all we use in Savage, so that makes it automatically worthless to have any of the others"

Which is sadly what a lot of people seem to feel 'dictated' the change of Astro to having nothing but Balance as a card.. sorry, coin to flip. The Savage players 'only' ever fished for balance, so logically that should be the 'only' buff that matters?

it's that kind of blatant Top-Down thinking that feels just so 'obvious' in the case of the Astro change.



And hope the last message i posted helped ya see 'our' view on the Astro change Sky

[SkyEdge1]

And hope the last message i posted helped ya see 'our' view on the Astro change Sky

I play all those lol, and yes thanks for taking the time to explain. I'm woefully underqualified to talk about healer, but I still feel for ya all especially with just how controversial the changes have been.