New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

[LaylaTsarra]

I know people that have made multiple alts specifically for that purpose

I have 9 fully leveled characters on various servers and have done story without skipping it on more than one. I have also used story and role skips on a couple as well. I suspect we'll see 70 skips with release of xpac and perhaps a lowering of the price on the current 60 skips.

[Halivel]

I have 9 fully leveled characters and have done story without skipping it on more than one. I have also used story and role skips on a couple as well. I suspect we'll see 70 skips with release of xpac and perhaps a lowering of the price on the current 60 skips.

I think they will just update those that exist already instead of adding new. I mean, until the moment when you buy 4.0, with potion you will skip only 1-50. But If you bought 4.0, you will skip 1-60, that's how it upscales now. Most likely it will upscale to 1-70, if you bought 5.0, but we will see.

[LaylaTsarra]

I think they will just update those that exist already instead of adding new. I mean, until the moment when you buy 4.0, with potion you will skip only 1-50. But If you bought 4.0, you will skip 1-60, that's how it upscales now. Most likely it will upscale to 1-70, if you bought 5.0, but we will see.

They might but it would give some an opportunity who complain it's way to expensive to buy them a chance to at least do a partial skip. You're probably right though updating them all to 70 sounds likely.

[Iscah]

Some people in here act like wow doesnt have a story. Wow had lore for all the dungeons too. Only difference is you didnt need to go out and do all the out world quests to unlock the dungeon. If you cared about the story for them you could do the quests, if not you could do something else.

I'm not a WoW player, but I assume that must work like the optional dungeons here - get a quest from a person who wants you to brave the depths of X to clear out the monsters or retrieve something for them.

Most of FFXIV's dungeons work in an inherently different way, because they're tied to the MSQ. You're sent there because of story events, and travelling through the dungeon is itself a story event. Some of the ARR dungeons could be disconnected from it if they wanted to, since you're just there as one adventurer of many (who happened to make it out alive), but it gets harder as the story gets more involved.

You don't just invade the Praetorium because you felt like beating up some Garleans. Every boss you fight there is story-relevant, and wouldn't make sense if you could do it without playing ARR first. (Who's the guy in the silly helmet? And isn't that Thancred that we met in the Lv5 quest back in Ul'dah?)

We wouldn't be in Dravania trying to make peace with the dragons if we hadn't met Ysayle, who is the reason we thought we could even attempt it. Vidofnir wouldn't have given us permission to access Sohm Al, and we wouldn't be venturing into the Aery to kill Nidhogg.

We wouldn't invade the Vault just for the sake of it. We're only doing it to rescue Aymeric, because he went to confront Thordan about the truth of the Dragonsong War, which we learned from our trip to Dravania.

And so on. We go to these places and do things there at specific times in the MSQ. We're not just adventurers exploring a freely accessible dungeon, we're there for a reason, and it doesn't make sense if that reason hasn't happened yet.

It would also make the story more confusing for those who are trying to follow it legitimately - or at least frustrating, because you keep unlocking new dungeons but can't play them yet. It would also mess with being able to sign up for roulettes, because there'd be a chance of ending up in that dungeon you're manually avoiding because you shouldn't be able to go there yet.

To me, that would just seem sloppy on the game writers' part. Like they don't care about telling a coherent story step-by-step, and keeping everything in order.



This is the only MMO I've played. I come from single-player games and RPGs, and there's nothing strange at all to me about being "locked out" of content until you've progressed to that point. It's how game stories normally work, unless they're designed to be wide-open from the start.

Maybe it's not how MMOs usually work, but this MMORPG still has a lot of RPG in it. And personally, I like that.



The one compromise I could see working is to have the optional endgame dungeons unlock earlier, if they don't rely on events happening in the MSQ.



Also, I don't see "play New Game Plus later" as a good solution to racing through content now - especially if you're doing it the long way and 'skimming through' everything instead of paying for a skip potion. Maybe you'll get to endgame sooner, but then if you use NG+ you'll be going through all the same tedium a second time just to get the story that you skipped over the first time.

do you think she is actually reading that story again? on two charachters? i doubt it.

It's very dependent on the person. I'd be reading through the script again (though maybe not so carefully on a second character within two weeks) because I'm interested in the story, and even the "boring" stuff at the beginning of the game can turn up some interesting or long-forgotten details.

I have four characters - my main is at endgame of course, second is halfway through Stormblood, third is in post-Heavensward. These three were all started very early in my gameplay because I wanted to see the opening stories for all three cities.

The fourth was still in the early stages of the game, but I boosted him to Lv50 specifically because I wanted to replay the Crystal Tower questline. (and it has been a surprisingly disconcerting business as I try to remember where he's up to in the main plot now, because I haven't seen him go through any of it.)

They should indeed make some changes to the "new player" experience:
- There is no need to have classes anymore, at all. Start with jobs directly
- Either move the starting Rising Stone (Horizon) or put an etherite there (so painful when you don't even have a chocobo to do 100 back and forth on foot)

Removing classes would mess with the storywriting for a lot of jobs - the job quests often emphasise the difference between the two disciplines. Usually the class is a "common skill" but the job is an obscure, advanced technique or restricted to only a few practitioners.

There's also a story-reason mentioned for why Vesper Bay doesn't have its own aetheryte: basically, either the Syndicate or Lolorito specifically blocked it from being installed, because the Scions wouldn't take bribes from them - so it's a very deliberate inconvenience, although one that could potentially be written out if they wanted to change it.

I think they will just update those that exist already instead of adding new. I mean, until the moment when you buy 4.0, with potion you will skip only 1-50. But If you bought 4.0, you will skip 1-60, that's how it upscales now. Most likely it will upscale to 1-70, if you bought 5.0, but we will see.

There are two separate "story skip potions" currently available. (They're actually books, but anyway.) One only skips ARR and takes you to the start of Heavensward (specifically landing a little way into the first HW quest, ready to talk to the gatekeeper and enter Ishgard), the other takes you to the start of Stormblood.

So it seems likely that we'll be seeing a new "skip to start of Shadowbringers" option when that releases - hopefully with price reductions on the previous versions, rather than an increased price on the new one.

[Halivel]

There are two separate "story skip potions" currently available. (They're actually books, but anyway.) One only skips ARR and takes you to the start of Heavensward (specifically landing a little way into the first HW quest, ready to talk to the gatekeeper and enter Ishgard), the other takes you to the start of Stormblood.

So it seems likely that we'll be seeing a new "skip to start of Shadowbringers" option when that releases - hopefully with price reductions on the previous versions, rather than an increased price on the new one.

Oh my, sorry then. Seems I mixed it with Jobs leveling potions which work in the way I described. Then yes, it will be logically to see a discount on 2.0 and 3.0 skip books.

[VirusOnline]

snip

WoW is everything opposite of what you said.
It's the reason why I quit that game which I played for nearly 7 years to come here during Heavensward.


In FFXIV, the story is a guide into this new world (as a new player). The quests needed a reason to exist and the MSQ gives it. The world made sense and dungeons didn't exist for the sake of leveling, but existed because it had a reason of being in the first place. Leveling is secondary. In WoW, leveling is primary as a new player the moment you get in game all you are doing is spamming dungeons and nothing more. In FFXIV, there is a questline for each and every class and profession, with rewards that make sense and are appropriate to level for the most part. This enriches the gameplay. Nothing can be said for WoW in this aspect.

Coming here years ago from WoW was admittedly hard. The GCD was longer. The MSQ was something I'd never encountered in an mmo. The profession system kicked my butt. (Switching from saying guild to FC ?!) The constant thought of "point me to the dungeons I need to spam all day long to level" was slowly being eroded, because here in FF I don't need to follow that WoW thought process. I can do ALOT of other things to level or have fun here. Yet everything has a reason in this game because of the MSQ.

I do agree that the MSQ needs work, but to eliminate it or locks acquired through MSQ for new players ? You're asking for a WoW clone.
The things that others are suggesting are game breaking. WoW survived only for so long in my opinion because at its launch and through BC it amassed popularity in the west as the de facto mmo to go to (and the only one). Now there exists other choices. In a recent 'documentary' like video I watched in how Yoshi went along creating the AAR, they studied mmos extensively and why they were successful and why they also failed. I honestly believe that the MSQ is a part of that decision making process in a successful mmo with a large playerbase.

[Physic]

WoW is everything opposite of what you said.
It's the reason why I quit that game which I played for nearly 7 years to come here during Heavensward.


In FFXIV, the story is a guide into this new world (as a new player). The quests needed a reason to exist and the MSQ gives it. The world made sense and dungeons didn't exist for the sake of leveling, but existed because it had a reason of being in the first place. Leveling is secondary. In WoW, leveling is primary as a new player the moment you get in game all you are doing is spamming dungeons and nothing more. In FFXIV, there is a questline for each and every class and profession, with rewards that make sense and are appropriate to level for the most part. This enriches the gameplay. Nothing can be said for WoW in this aspect.

Coming here years ago from WoW was admittedly hard. The GCD was longer. The MSQ was something I'd never encountered in an mmo. The profession system kicked my butt. (Switching from saying guild to FC ?!) The constant thought of "point me to the dungeons I need to spam all day long to level" was slowly being eroded, because here in FF I don't need to follow that WoW thought process. I can do ALOT of other things to level or have fun here. Yet everything has a reason in this game because of the MSQ.

I do agree that the MSQ needs work, but to eliminate it or locks acquired through MSQ for new players ? You're asking for a WoW clone.
The things that others are suggesting are game breaking. WoW survived only for so long in my opinion because at its launch and through BC it amassed popularity in the west as the de facto mmo to go to (and the only one). Now there exists other choices. In a recent 'documentary' like video I watched in how Yoshi went along creating the AAR, they studied mmos extensively and why they were successful and why they also failed. I honestly believe that the MSQ is a part of that decision making process in a successful mmo with a large playerbase.

wow is not the only game, ffxi, the inspiration of this game which predates wow had a robust storyline, that didnt block the majority of content.

the msq has value as you say, but thats for people who want to do it. There is no value, to people who dont want to do it. The game already concedes its not neccessary by story skip and the fact you can manually skip all of it.

[VirusOnline]

wow is not the only game, ffxi, the inspiration of this game which predates wow had a robust storyline, that didnt block the majority of content.

the msq has value as you say, but thats for people who want to do it. There is no value, to people who dont want to do it. The game already concedes its not neccessary by story skip and the fact you can manually skip all of it.

You are correct, but only technically. The entire warcraft series predates FFXI. Warcraft becoming WoW was the first biggest hit on the western audience.

People who want to do it ? It's a part of the game. It's integral to how the game works.
Story skip costs money - it is NOT free. It costs money for a reason - to not cheapen the experience of the game itself.
If everyone could skip for free (especially new players) then the game itself who have 0 value.
That argument is null at this point.

[Physic]

You are correct, but only technically. The entire warcraft series predates FFXI. Warcraft becoming WoW was the first biggest hit on the western audience.

People who want to do it ? It's a part of the game. It's integral to how the game works.
Story skip costs money - it is NOT free. It costs money for a reason - to not cheapen the experience of the game itself.
If everyone could skip for free (especially new players) then the game itself who have 0 value.
That argument is null at this point.

24 man raids and eureka is also part of the game, but its not required to do otjer stuff.

it costs money, so as not to cheapen the experience of the game? it costs money because it enhances the game for certain players.

If main scenario gives good exp, rewards items, and is great for the game, people will do it. If no one does it when given an option to do it, its probably not compelling content. Then they need to make it compelling.


and warcarft as a solo real time strategy game is irrelevant to this whole discussion.