Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Gemina]

collective unconscious?

thats 1/90 seconds. Im assuming the third regen is the aoe one, you are talking about 150+140+40 =320 potency heal every 3 seconds. 190 on the pull after that. The only way thats adequate healing for pulls of 2+ groups of monsters consistently is if you and the tank are over geared for the instance.

I really think a lot of the people here have not played a dungeon at minimum ilevel in a really long time. Generally speaking there is a signifigant increase in ease for tanks and healers, with the combination of both being high making things signifigantly different in terms of what they are capable of.

not that its impossible with pretty good coordination, but its pretty risky to pull more than 2 groups at minimum ilevel consistently through the dungeon. Also, when dps is weaker, you are more likely to run low on resources as you go on further.

basically yall are used to being OP.

Pretty much this.

It doesn't take extensive search on the healer forums to come across a post where a healer is griping because a tank bites off more than he can chew. We have a similar thread there to the DF thread here to go and vent. Tanks who melt like butter in a hot oven are not a rare occurrence. No amount of regens, ogcds, or boosted gcds are going to save them or the group. They could have a low ilv, broken gear, not using proper CD rotations, or a combination of those.

Hell, this just happened to me the other night in Temple of the Fist - a level 70 dungeon. This DRK pulled wall to wall after the second boss, remained in DPS stance, and only used Living Dead. His Walking Dead status was almost instantly negated because I was cure bombing the crap out of him, and had no room for offensive gcds. I exhausted everything and was left with adlo and physick spam. He still dropped, and then the rest of us got picked off.

The thing is, I feel this actually justifies kicking the tank. Why? Because he was not able to perform the core part of his job, which involves maintaining aggro. As a lv70 DRK myself, I am fully aware of what his toolkit consists of, and always FT the tank in dungeons when they do pulls so I can keep a closer eye on them. Whether his gear was not up to date or broken doesn't even matter. By choosing to do a supplementary task that is involved with tanking i.e. large pulls, he compromised the entire party because he lost all aggro when he dropped. All of us ended up taking damage, and eventually got KO'd. Yet, many players in this thread and on these forums will complement such a tank for "trying" despite the wipe, even though full blown wipes are going to add a significant amount of time to the run. Far more than small pulls.

Ah well, I just continue to sit over here scratching my head.

[Granyala]

Hell, this just happened to me the other night in Temple of the Fist - a level 70 dungeon. This DRK pulled wall to wall after the second boss, remained in DPS stance, and only used Living Dead.

Yeah, some pulls won't work w/o tank CDs. Many a tank doesn't have the skill to use them, which is why I never put pressure on a tank if he pulls slow.
That being said: I did heal that pull a few times and it is the only pull I can remember in Stormbloods dungeons that is actually critical. 2 big ones + all of them dogs can be a bit much, esp since the scaling in there is rather aggressive.

[WaterShield]

Pretty much this.

It doesn't take extensive search on the healer forums to come across a post where a healer is griping because a tank bites off more than he can chew. We have a similar thread there to the DF thread here to go and vent. Tanks who melt like butter in a hot oven are not a rare occurrence. No amount of regens, ogcds, or boosted gcds are going to save them or the group. They could have a low ilv, broken gear, not using proper CD rotations, or a combination of those.

Hell, this just happened to me the other night in Temple of the Fist - a level 70 dungeon. This DRK pulled wall to wall after the second boss, remained in DPS stance, and only used Living Dead. His Walking Dead status was almost instantly negated because I was cure bombing the crap out of him, and had no room for offensive gcds. I exhausted everything and was left with adlo and physick spam. He still dropped, and then the rest of us got picked off.

The thing is, I feel this actually justifies kicking the tank. Why? Because he was not able to perform the core part of his job, which involves maintaining aggro. As a lv70 DRK myself, I am fully aware of what his toolkit consists of, and always FT the tank in dungeons when they do pulls so I can keep a closer eye on them. Whether his gear was not up to date or broken doesn't even matter. By choosing to do a supplementary task that is involved with tanking i.e. large pulls, he compromised the entire party because he lost all aggro when he dropped. All of us ended up taking damage, and eventually got KO'd. Yet, many players in this thread and on these forums will complement such a tank for "trying" despite the wipe, even though full blown wipes are going to add a significant amount of time to the run. Far more than small pulls.

Ah well, I just continue to sit over here scratching my head.

I would argue that having relevant gear to the dungeon and having it repaired is an even more basic skill. There is nothing for anyone to defend about that... yet I have seen threads with people arguing that people can't be expected to gear themselves appropriately because that its too harsh or some such tripe.

[Gemina]

I would argue that having relevant gear to the dungeon and having it repaired is an even more basic skill. There is nothing for anyone to defend about that... yet I have seen threads with people arguing that people can't be expected to gear themselves appropriately because that its too harsh or some such tripe.

I don't think you are arguing with me here though? We both acknowledge that in order for a tank to perform their most basic of tasks they need to have relevant gear with good condition. Without these requirements met, they are going to have trouble with maintaining aggro, and staying alive. If they are not on their feet, it is impossible for them to do their job. It's no longer about big vs small pulls in this case. Having to resort to smaller pulls becomes a circumstance of their neglect. Kick immediately! No one is doing this though. Instead, we're booting adequately geared tanks for pulling too small. Can you see why I'm scratching my head?

The threads that I do see more of, is the request to put an ilv requirement in leveling dungeons. This is another head scratcher. SE is basically allowing players to be lazy and neglectful by doing this. Leveling dungeons are actually harder to progress than end game dungeons, and it makes absolutely zero sense.