Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Canadane]

Tanks indeed set the pace.
The pace should be as fast as possible.

[Awha]

Tanks indeed set the pace.
The pace should be as fast as possible.

Possible to whom, the tank or the group? This is what is confuses me statements like the tank does set the pace, but it should be as quick as possible. Who will be the judge that determines what the group is capable of? The tank? Or the group that is trying to reassure the tank that they will be fine and the group can handle it?

[Granyala]

Possible to whom, the tank or the group?

Both obviously.
Your job as a tank is to pull as smoothly and hard as your gear and the group can handle.

Naturally it takes a few failed attempt to find those limits, so typically the first pull is always a coin toss.

I’m curious is there actual statistical data that shows large pulls make a dungeon go faster? I’m just wondering because with huge pulls you loose a bit of healer dps

You don't.
Mobs don't hit hard enough and there are tank cooldowns.
Trust me, AE is A LOT faster.

Leveling dungeons excluded, those mobs hit like trucks.

Also why is there this obsession with making dungeons go as fast as possible? The are the staple of the game, should they not be enjoyable to run at any speed?

Because, due to the fact that mobs in ex dungeons hit like wet noodles with self esteem issues, it is extremely boring for both, tanks and healers to pull individual groups.

[Canadane]

Tanks indeed set the pace.
The pace should be as fast as possible.

Possible to whom, the tank or the group? This is what is confuses me statements like the tank does set the pace, but it should be as quick as possible. Who will be the judge that determines what the group is capable of? The tank? Or the group that is trying to reassure the tank that they will be fine and the group can handle it?

Now that the game is down and I have time between my endless light pagos farming, I can shed some lig...knowledge on what I meant. My thoughts here might be a bit fragmented but I hope I express my feelings appropriately.

From the tank perspective, you're pulling mobs, you'll be setting the pace. However, all jobs that are up to date on ilvl are way more powerful than they have every right to be in dungeons. Some dungeons don't require a healer at all. Tanks can be unstoppable walls if played correctly. And that's the key, playing the job correctly.

You find more timid players. Be they inexperienced, or just nervous about some unknown responsibility they think they must live up to. You find this generally with tanks or healers (I can rant about the downfall of DPS too but that's probably better saved for a different topic). And these players are unaware at how powerful SE has made our jobs, or how trivial dungeons actually are. These days healers don't spend GCDs on healing. Tanks don't need to cycle through every single one of their buffs. Sac pulls are a thing of the past as it's better to just kill than it is raise.

Wall to wall pulling is very easy and not hard to complete in the slightest. However, there's been a growing concern that the context of such advice is lost as I suppose it's taken as written. This does not apply to levelling dungeons.
Dungeons that aren't at level cap (50, 60, 70, or soon to be 80) do not have minimum ilvl requirements. Meaning you won't know how undergeared someone will be. For these runs, checking the gear is one step, but you also must understand that even with max gear, it isn't always possible to go wall to wall. Many yes, some become very difficult mind you. An experienced tank who's been though these will already know what the comfortable pull will be and do that.

Now aside from all that, you have people that want to stop and smell the flowers. Admire the fine craftsmanship of the cave wall. Read every flavour text. I'm personally fine with people doing that last one, lore is lore. But when you've been doing the same thing for 8+ years and you have other things to tend to, you want to get this place over with as fast as possible. Having one person stop is generally going to be inconveniencing three others. The default speed for dungeons is "gofast" speed and if slowdowns are required for some reason or another, disconnection, WHM is actually a CNJ and forgot their stone, or someones house is burning down, call them as you see them.

From a non-tank perspective, if a tank is going slow 'just because' or for some other non-reason and they refuse to pick up the pace, I am more than happy to leave, even as a DPS. I have a plethora of things to do that aren't in Duty Finder, a half hour of my time is much more productive doing something that isn't going to be 25 minutes (or more!) in a single dungeon. That being said, I also don't mind pulling ahead. If they tank won't do their job, I'll do it. I've done dungeons tankless before. As a tank, I actually love when a competent DPS pulls ahead, if their sprint is up first, or on dungeons where wall to wall isn't possible. If it means keeping up enochian or greased lightning, or BotD, etc, then I'm all for it. It just means the next pull will die faster because the DPS now doesn't need to ramp up and can instead start out full power.

So again, I apologize over some fragmented ranting here, but hopefully you can understand the general mindset people will have, and the general advice that covers 90% of situations you'll be in, and how to best take in the other 10% of places where it doesn't apply.

[Lihtleita]

Tanks indeed set the pace.
The pace should be as fast as possible.

i see you there you warrior main

[Bacent]

Tanks indeed set the pace.
The pace should be as fast as possible.

It's about when and where though. I've been running into a lot of new tanks recently. I'm more than happy to let them go as fast/slow as they need to while they're trying to learn, and let them know they can ask me anything if they need it. I have some friends that just returned to the game after taking a break for a couple years almost, and he's beyond rusty.

If people are upfront about wanting to slow down, I'm more than happy to slow down a bit and blast the enemies as a healer (When I'm a healer that is), this doesn't include times I'm in a dungeon and the tank has a first time notice.

I feel like people are the most understanding when an expac drops though. Everything is new to everyone, and a lot of people do slow down when learning a dungeon/new boss/ect.