Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[van_arn]

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

A tank is absolutely leeching by not knowing the basics of pulling and cooldowns by ilvl 340 and being able to apply them in a multipull. That is something that can be learned at level 61 if the tank bought a skip potion. That is something a tank would be *encouraged* to learn at level 61.

If a kick only makes the odd man out hate other players, and doesn't cause any sort of self-reflection, then they earn every single kick that comes their way.

[Physic]

In either case, people are suffering for somebody else's benefit.

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

[Feidam]

The weird thing is large pulls don’t necessarily speed up the dungeon. While i do agree that large pulls can help a tank learn proper cooldown usage tank anxiety is a problem that some folks have as well.

[Hash_Browns]

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

This is not how it works.
Expecting the tank to how his role if he queues up for a level 70 dungeon should be what's expected by all played.
Hell, I would expect that at level 50 & 60 content as well.

You can not treat everyone who enters the duty finder like they are a 3 yr old because it's the duty finder.

[Dualgunner]

the difference is duty finder is gone into with the assumption that will pair you with random players of varying skill levels.

one group is operating under that assumption

the other group is expecting more than that, then punishing the other player if they dont meet their expectation.

The poor performer is expecting the rest of the group to be skilled enough to carry them through content, punishing the other three players even if they do meet their expectations.

[Physic]

A tank is absolutely leeching by not knowing the basics of pulling and cooldowns by ilvl 340. That is something that can be learned at level 61 if the tank bought a skip potion. That is something a tank would be *encouraged* to learn at level 61.

no, there is no mechanic or guide in the game that says tanks should pull as many groups as they see. Pulling many groups is a meta that only exists as long as SE designs fights to support it. This why people tend to say except leveling dungeons, because you are less likely to be overgeared. At 61 pulling more than two groups will probably end with someone or everyone dead at minimum ilevel.

Getting level 61 requires beating a level 59 dungeon 2-3 times. And you dont even need to do a dungeon at all to be level 70. You can do HoH, which prioritizes small pulls or no pulls. You can do alliance raids, which seldom have extra monster pulls at all

And leeching means you are getting more than you are supposed to based on others. Its not leeching if you are working harder, and getting less for it. That is being ineffecient.

[van_arn]

no, there is no mechanic or guide in the game that says tanks should pull as many groups as they see. Pulling many groups is a meta that only exists as long as SE designs fights to support it. This why people tend to say except leveling dungeons, because you are less likely to be overgeared. At 61 pulling more than two groups will probably end with someone or everyone dead at minimum ilevel.

Getting level 61 requires beating a level 59 dungeon 2-3 times. And you dont even need to do a dungeon at all to be level 70. You can do HoH, which prioritizes small pulls or no pulls. You can do alliance raids, which seldom have extra monster pulls at all

And leeching means you are getting more than you are supposed to based on others. Its not leeching if you are working harder, and getting less for it. That is being ineffecient.

There's a mechanic and guide in every single dungeon you ever tank: your party.

If you skipped the dungeon process as tank via POTD/HOH, then you haven't done the tanktorial. My suggestion would be to start at Brayflox' longstop, and work your way up until you can handle a dungeon where you're no longer in over your head.

By "in over your head" I mean "are no longer a detriment to the party."

Because if a party determines you to be a detriment, they can and eventually will give you a boot. What's expected of a tank increases as you go further into the expansion.

If you want a cosmetic 70, though, POTD/HOH are great for that. But they don't teach you much you can actually use. They are a false sense of progression.

[Physic]

The poor performer is expecting the rest of the group to be skilled enough to carry them through content, punishing the other three players even if they do meet their expectations.

the duty finder sets the expectations to low.

Kicking is not supposed to be a means of enforcing skill checks. Roulettes are designed to pair people looking for specific dungeons with people who are experienced in said dungeons. That means newbs are likely to be paired with skilled players intentionally.

kicking someone gives them negative progress, continuing gives other slower progress. Even in the rare cases where single pulling is somehow more costly in time lost (its usually only going to be 5 minutes difference, vs a 10-30 minute loss for the kicked player, and if they are a tank the waiting for tank negates that) It is still the people who applied a higher burden on selection, knowing that regular duty finder was not made to be more specific.

if the design of duty finder was supposed to be anything goes, they would not penalize people for easily giving up on parties. They clearly expected people to try to work together.

[Awha]

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

First off all this is why rules are important to hypotheticals, since you are asking me what I would view as fair, without the rules I am not certain what rights I am entitled to, or what I agreed upon entering the ride share service.

In my case I am not sure why I would be suffering if the driver was unable to get to my stop without causing a delay the reason for the delay could be anything causing a delay. Now what caused the delay would change up how I would view the situation, but either way without the rules of your example I cannot be certain what rights I am entitled to. In the end let us say I agree to the view that I was suffering, what makes my suffering more important to not even consider the suffering of the others? Cause it would be 4 people who are suffering verse the one. The three riders and the driver who now has to delay his pick up for another fare because I put my foot down and demanded that he makes my stop no matter what. See without rules to the situation how can we determine what is just in this situation.

If I go based off my view I would go with the path that nets the most good, which means that I am walking back to my stop. If we go based off yours others be damned. See without rules the situation does not look the favorable for the latter. Please understand I do wish to have a this discussion with you since your view does interest me, it is just hard for me to answer your questions without know the rules I agreed to upon entering into your example. Sort echos what is wrong with DF, while people may find it silly maybe they should take the time to list out what they view as difference of play style, and what is the minimum expectation of each role. Novice hall is a joke since the rules for a level 15 should not be the same as a level 70

[Physic]

There's a mechanic and guide in every single dungeon you ever tank: your party.

If you skipped the dungeon process as tank via POTD/HOH, then you haven't done the tanktorial. My suggestion would be to start at Brayflox' longstop, and work your way up until you can handle a dungeon where you're no longer in over your head.

By "in over your head" I mean "are no longer a detriment to the party."

Because if a party determines you to be a detriment, they can and eventually will give you a boot. What's expected of a tank increases as you go further into the expansion.

If you want a cosmetic 70, though, POTD/HOH are great for that. But they don't teach you much you can actually use. They are a false sense of progression.

your party is a really crappy tutorial. Majority of players are not that good, and thier strategies are not consistent from group to group. The way you tank leveling up is pretty different than when you are over geared. Just like players arent always that skilled, people who give advice are often not that skilled. They are often wrong or dont understand the situation. The concept that the majority opinion is going to be the correct one is often false, and more based on feeling than analysis.