Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Voltyblast]

(0)
I think there's a misunderstanding in your ways. Yea tank population is low but doesn't mean you have to have a bad attitude towards it (: I main all 3 roles and could care less if a tank misses aggro because DPS well DPS as a tank is pulling Is a no-no. Tanking is easy, dps is easy and healing is easy. No one should act shitty to anyone. It's all about team work.
And the real issue is people's toxic attitudes towards everything and anything " everyone thinks there the best" that's stupid and often they get showed up ALOT. And no one should be entitled to anything there is a priority to certain jobs but no entitlement. That's selfish and unbecoming.

You are right about not needing to have a bad attitude, but it's not my fault if others behave badly when I try to make things work: I got kicked for all sorts of reasons, from disagreeing with a group to literally not aggroing a boss with a normal 3-combo, as well as getting death threats for other reasons such as disliking stuff other likes. Thing is, behave bad and I'll get bad too, I'm not going to stay there and getting kicked because of your ego: I just want to do my run, getting my 90 tomes per day, and leave: if they want things to go bad because they can't stand a mistake from time to time, don't expect me to be lenient.

And honestly I'm not the best tank either: I don't have BiS gear, I don't have crafted gear either, I'm pretty average because I don't care about being the best: I just care about doing my job and moving on. Am I entitled? Just a bit really, although it's not like go around and say "hey, get me as tank, cuz I'm the best": I just do my queues and get things over quickly because I'm a tank.
Tanks ARE a really small minority and this is why I do the major content with a tank because that's, for me, the only way to do stuff done (and I don't like 30 minutes as a dps). However here's the difference: I don't like being entitled, I wish we had more tanks so that I could play my dps, I wish tanks healers and dps were equal in sizes but the truth is they aren't, so tanks will have some sort of benefits above the other 2 roles. This is why dps queues are above 30 minutes and why healers don't often get their AiN buff in roulettes. As a tank I can do 5 dungeons in an hour but as a dps I can barely do one.

But if me playing a tank is not enough and you want to add salt to injury, say that I suck because boohoo we lost 30 seconds more in a boss, or that a boss is not dying fast enough because my dps is lacking (true story on this one), of course I'm going to get mad at you, especially when I try to be nice and all you do is bash on my head! I try to be nice but expect some backlash if you just think that being mean to me helps. Spoilers: it doesn't.

I swear to you, I try HARD to be nice with my team: I always try to be patient with my team, I even teach tactics when they forget, I make sure to tell what to do or how to make a better rotation especially since I'm a Mentor (even though now FFXIV can punish you so woops, not anymore), I try my damn best to get these 20 minutes done as smooth as possible and get our job done because I have a life to care about, I don't have the mental or physical energy to care about ingame drama, I don't have enough cares in the world to care if the dungeon goes slow or if the dps isn't enough or we are supposed to get it done in 20 minutes, I don't have enough time to THINK about caring about why the dungeons or why someone doesn't like someone or if someone hates me because I dislike their precious game's story or raiding or characters. All I want is my dungeon run to get done, just like the other 3 members of the party, and if this means requires me to help them then sure, I have absolutely no problems and I'm glad I could help.

But if that's not enough, then yes, I am going to be mean and react accordingly: I play games to relax, not to get into fights. I DON'T WANT to fight, but I will if I must.
Although I'm reaching that age and point where I don't care about fighting anymore, so I just decided to just not bother with the new expansion and quit the game. My health will at least recover.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I can only say this.

I didn't ask for these 20 minutes to turn into a full-blown war but they asked for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gemina]

I'll give you some real truth. Some of these other players don't raid and don't main all 3 roles like I do. Regardless of what anyone says. A tank can set pace but isn't anymore important than anyother role. Everyone is equal but tank and healers have alot to deal with in a raid. It's all about team work. If anyone tells you that all the roles are not equal then there stupid. Without enough dps you wipe without a healer everyone dies, without a tank everyone dies. It's all about equal team work.

I agree and disagree here. Because fewer people play tanks, there is a certain amount of value associated with them due to supply vs demand. They are much less expendable, especially in comparison to DPS players. Don't get me wrong, this does not entitle the tank to act like a jerk and be disrespectful towards others. There are tanks who do think this way, and also non-tank mains who will queue up as one for the insta-Q privilege in order to progress content, aesthetics, or whatever. It is not cool at all, and they should be kicked from groups. However, I don't think it is accurate to say that all three roles are equal. However, all three are of equal importance in most cases when it comes to clearing content. There are some instances that can be done without tanking or healing.

From that perspective, I can understand where some of the comments are coming from that are in opposition to my own. I understand that some of these players want to make an example of said tanks, put their foot down and say, "Dude, just coz you're a tank; it doesn't mean we won't be ask quick to boot your ass." But you have to choose your battles. I've dealt with tanks SO much worse than those who do small pulls. It such a trivial thing to boot a tank for in comparison to the leet tanks who think they are gods. We can't just assume that a tank who does small pulls is of this mentality. We're burning down houses to kill a spider by doing this, and the damn spider still survives!

Obstructing gameplay entails more than just having a slightly longer dungeon run. It means making it outright miserable to get through. Let's be real here; when we're doing dungeons via roulettes, we don't really want to be there. Dungeons we actually want to do we queue up for specifically. In case of the former, it already isn't an enjoyable experience with the exception of some rare intangible factor like getting a known youtuber in your group or something. But if our time is so precious that we can't just deal with randoms, then there isn't much choice other than to go into roulettes with a premade. DF is a privilege where you sacrifice certain freedoms for the sake of the convenience with getting a faster means to putting a group together. People abuse this privilege because they know SE won't crack down on every case where someone gets kicked. Hence the whole, "difference in playstyle."

[SamotoZama]

This is a tricky one. Basically, most people think they are entitled.

I have seen both sides where people think they have all the power.
The Tank won't pull if someone isn't doing what they want.
The Healer won't heal if the Tank isn't pulling what they want.

I am not suggesting that most people behave this way. But, in my opinion, there isn't really an answer to your question of Tank vs Group Entitlement, because both tend to think they are entitled.

[cicatriz313]

This is a tricky one. Basically, most people think they are entitled.

I have seen both sides where people think they have all the power.
The Tank won't pull if someone isn't doing what they want.
The Healer won't heal if the Tank isn't pulling what they want.

I am not suggesting that most people behave this way. But, in my opinion, there isn't really an answer to your question of Tank vs Group Entitlement, because both tend to think they are entitled.

Lol preach. Although as the above poster shows, some tanks really think they are entitled to something more just because they choose to play a role that is low pop. And that is precisely the type of tank I imagine got booted in the ops situation.

[Drayce1]

Every run I do, I generally set the pace based on what the healer is wearing, and I always, always go pld due to having the best survivability with mitigation and clemency. If the healer is well geared I pull wall to wall, if healer is undergeared, ill pull one group, after one or two dies, I grab the next. If dps or healer gets impatient and starts pulling mobs over, I simply grab them, and will only berate the puller and initiate vote kick if we wipe. So far, I had no issue, save for one underperforming whm who screamed at me to stop using clemency, spite she wasnt even holy bombing....sighs.

[Ilan]

Guys this is Final Fantasy and if you are not a undergeared or/and completly green tank in a leveling dungeon with a completly undergeared or/and green healer and completly undergeared or/and green dps you do what made a WoW player famous once.

You scream LEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS and pull every trash mob that is on your way to the next boss or porter. Its not rocket science.

[TaleraRistain]

Tanks do have greater entitlement. But consider your examples. If a DPS doesn't AoE, the party can still make up the DPS. If the tank can't handle big pulls, knows they can't handle big pulls, and then gets pressured into doing them and fails, then the party will go up one side the tank and down the other. They will get called a shit tank. There is a much greater stress on the tank to perform well and mistakes that cause wipes are not looked on fondly.

So yes, tanks do have greater entitlement, and it's justified.

I'm a WHM. I let my tank know that they can pull more if they're pulling small and we're not having issues. But I always leave the choice in their hands. It's a real person behind that toon. I show respect by acknowledging they know their limits. I show willingness to work within those limits. It's called a party for a reason. We're all intended to work together as a team.

[Voltyblast]

Tanks do have greater entitlement. But consider your examples. If a DPS doesn't AoE, the party can still make up the DPS. If the tank can't handle big pulls, knows they can't handle big pulls, and then gets pressured into doing them and fails, then the party will go up one side the tank and down the other. They will get called a shit tank. There is a much greater stress on the tank to perform well and mistakes that cause wipes are not looked on fondly.

So yes, tanks do have greater entitlement, and it's justified.

I'm a WHM. I let my tank know that they can pull more if they're pulling small and we're not having issues. But I always leave the choice in their hands. It's a real person behind that toon. I show respect by acknowledging they know their limits. I show willingness to work within those limits. It's called a party for a reason. We're all intended to work together as a team.

I definitely agree there, although it depends: it's less about stress and more about having to "lead" the party into the end of the dungeon, which means that we are needing to know our limits and to know when to go, when to pull and everything. Dungeons are cake but when I have to do some primal fights, I always have to know what I must do MORE than everyone else, because I'm the one holding the boss in place, making sure to move them when needed, and to resist their hits. Infact it's the closest thing to a stress test I can think of and sometimes I don't join farm parties until I do 2 or 3 practice fights at their fullest, because I require to know everything from the boss. And multiply that to 4 with raids!

And just like I mentioned in my posts, I don't like to fight teams and I don't like to feel entitled, but I have to defend myself from unnecessary and unwanted backlashes when I can: I don't like to be called a shit tank when I'm there for learning the fight - on a practice fight no less - and I don't like that just because I want to make sure things go my way, it means I'm entitled because I'm the tank: I always try to put the team into a good spot so we can end the run as fast as possible and one of the best pieces of advice I've gotten from my earliest days is to "know your limits", because not all tanks are perfect but that's when the team will help to fill the blanks.

Just like Talera says, "we're intended to work as a team", and as a tank I still want that teamwork to fully work. EVEN if I might look entitled or annoying or whiny, but as long as we get the run done and get our loot, that's all that matters right?

[van_arn]

Tanks do have greater entitlement. But consider your examples. If a DPS doesn't AoE, the party can still make up the DPS. If the tank can't handle big pulls, knows they can't handle big pulls, and then gets pressured into doing them and fails, then the party will go up one side the tank and down the other. They will get called a shit tank. There is a much greater stress on the tank to perform well and mistakes that cause wipes are not looked on fondly.

So yes, tanks do have greater entitlement, and it's justified.

I'm a WHM. I let my tank know that they can pull more if they're pulling small and we're not having issues. But I always leave the choice in their hands. It's a real person behind that toon. I show respect by acknowledging they know their limits. I show willingness to work within those limits. It's called a party for a reason. We're all intended to work together as a team.

They are a shit tank if they can't handle this beyond 70, though. That's the whole point, a little flash spam and an occasional cooldown is all it takes. There's nothing to be afraid of. Even the necessary gear is included in the ilvl requirement to even zone in.

[Deceptus]

They are a shit tank if they can't handle this beyond 70, though. That's the whole point, a little flash spam and an occasional cooldown is all it takes. There's nothing to be afraid of. Even the necessary gear is included in the ilvl requirement to even zone in.

Seriously. Seeing skittish tanks at lvl 70 is pretty baffling.