Tank entitlement vs group entitlement

[Awha]

it was an example, the real rules of ride share was not the point.

the point is every one has to pay up front before getting a group, in time. Everyone pays extra time until the conflict occurs.
one guy wants to continue to play in a way that is consistent with design of the game
other guys want to play in a different way that is also consistent

why do the other guys get to choose to waste the other guy's initial investment, when no ones initial investment needs to be wasted?

what is fair about 3 people punishing one guy, simply because they disagree on how fast he should do his job?

Majority opinion is not necessarily the correct stance.

In hypotheticals rules do matter, since said rules have an impact on how one would react to the situation. Because fair is subjective only objective marker we can go by are the rules present in the situation. In aspect of fairness it does not add much to the conversation, since in my case going based off no established, and my stop would caused a delay for the other three people I would simply get off their stop and walk to my desired location since in that would net the largest postive outcome since in theory more people would be generally pleased.

Which sense of fairness is right? What marker could we use to determine that if no rules are present.

[Feidam]

Possible isn't likely. And the player that can put in the effort to obtain that gear through the marketboard can put in the effort to learn their job without going potato.

If the gear is given to them, then they have friends that can teach them how to play. Without making a df group suffer.

But df groups don't need to suffer, they can always kick.



Freaking amen.

Didn’t say they couldn’t kick. I said in my experience most players don’t behave this way.

[Physic]

The Burn has an ilvl requirement of 340, a fresh 70 is given 290 gear if they bother to do the class quest. Furthermore, it is gated by the MSQ in such a way that the game is certain the player knows how to push buttons.

By the time a player can meet those gear requirements and gain access, then they have no excuse to not know the basics of the job they are playing.

If they were *given* crafted gear, then they get to learn by a trial by fire. And it is perfectly fine if they keep getting kicked until they learn the basics.

That all aside, the fact remains that if a party doesn't want the bumbling idiot that somehow still doesn't know how fill the role they queued in for, then the party has every right to fire them and replace them with someone that can do their job.

And you can't stop them.

big pulls are not a basic skill of tanking. They require being familiar with the level, fairly well geared. being minimal ilevel for tank and healer means more than 2 pulls is probably fatal. Its also a skillset only used in dungeons, which is no longer the only way to level, and also in no way required, or even reccomended by any mechanic in the game.

if you dont want a chance of slow player (because some one pulling one group is not necessarily a bumbling idiot). Make speed run guild, or a party finder, or ask in discord. Dont punish people for attempting to play the game in casual content in a casual way.

you cant stop people from punching random people in the face either, it doesnt mean its the right course of action.

but lets be honest, you enjoy punishing people who annoy you, even if its unintentional. you could care less if SE told people not to, unless they could realistically enforce it. For you, its really only about yourself.

[van_arn]

Didn’t say they couldn’t kick. I said in my experience most players don’t behave this way.

This is true; I'd say we need more kicks though. The fact that so many players can make it so far into the game without knowing the basics is partially the community's fault for permitting leeching.

[Hash_Browns]

Didn’t say they couldn’t kick. I said in my experience most players don’t behave this way.

Kick is the final solution.
It's a solution that most people don't want to use, but feel they need to put on the table at some point.

[Physic]

In hypotheticals rules do matter, since said rules have an impact on how one would react to the situation. Because fair is subjective only objective marker we can go by are the rules present in the situation. In aspect of fairness it does not add much to the conversation, since in my case going based off no established, and my stop would caused a delay for the other three people I would simply get off their stop and walk to my desired location since in that would net the largest postive outcome since in theory more people would be generally pleased.

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

[Dualgunner]

why is it fair that you suffer for their benefit, even though you were using the service as advertised?

even if you yourself put the desires of the many, over your own rights, do you understand why that should be a choice, and not a requirement?

In either case, people are suffering for somebody else's benefit.

[Physic]

This is true; I'd say we need more kicks though. The fact that so many players can make it so far into the game without knowing the basics is partially the community's fault for permitting leeching.

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

[van_arn]

big pulls are not a basic skill of tanking. They require being familiar with the level, fairly well geared. being minimal ilevel for tank and healer means more than 2 pulls is probably fatal. Its also a skillset only used in dungeons, which is no longer the only way to level, and also in no way required, or even reccomended by any mechanic in the game.

if you dont want a chance of slow player (because some one pulling one group is not necessarily a bumbling idiot). Make speed run guild, or a party finder, or ask in discord. Dont punish people for attempting to play the game in casual content in a casual way.

you cant stop people from punching random people in the face either, it doesnt mean its the right course of action.

but lets be honest, you enjoy punishing people who annoy you, even if its unintentional. you could care less if SE told people not to, unless they could realistically enforce it. For you, its really only about yourself.

You aren't qualified to say what I feel or what I like. I can do that just fine on my own, thanks.

As for the necessity of a pf group, we're now at the point in the expansion where someone that wants to run min ilvl can create their own pf group. If someone can't handle the mechanics in post-stormblood gated content, then they can be the laughable person in pf forming a learning party for the Burn.

I'll say now as I always have been, the right course of action is to follow the party's wishes. I'm fine on just bailing and eating the 30 minute penalty if two dps and a tank don't want to multipull, but it's not difficult to see one of those two dps click yes to get rid of a slow tank in this dungeon.

In that situation, it's time to multipull. And if they don't know how by this point, then they can go back to a lower-tier dungeon where they can learn at their leisure.

[Hash_Browns]

a tank is not leeching by doing small pulls, in fact he is probably working harder than he needs to. Kicking people doesnt teach them anything, other than to hate other players, or kick players that annoy them, if they accept your premise.

How have you gone from "small pulls > large pulls" to "Small pulls = harder working than big pulls."