5.0 Combat changes: What do you expect?

[Bonbori]

I try to temper my expectations. They've been pretty vague regarding battle system changes so I don't want to fall in love with any ideas born in my head, only to find out I was completely off the mark in May.

But what I'm hoping for is that the MCH rework they announced a while ago will do something to fix its clunkiness, ping-reliance and how hard it gets punished for any interruption in uptime. Like... come on. Wildfire is both too short to be reliable with even the slightest amount of lag and too long not to get screwed up by bosses deciding to invuln/phase/disappear before it detonates. Every fight has different timings for those moments, and knowing that one is coming up soon doesn't make the awful feeling of having to hold back our only significant way of contributing personal damage feel any less awful. Nobody else has an attack with (effectively) over 10s cast time...
And even if MCH is not supposed to be dealing consistent damage, then it must at least be able to match BRD in the support department.

Ahem... I should probably stop going before it turns into a rant. Moving on...

I hope role actions take an axe to the face. There are so many that would be better served merged into job-specific abilities instead of existing as separate buttons. Like... Diversion. Why isn't it a secondary effect of Embolden for RDM? Why does SCH/SMN have to have Lucid Dreaming when it could simply have more MP return on Energy Drain/Aetherflow instead? And why does Protect even need a button to cast? It might as well be a passive aura for all it does. Ugh!

But really my main reason for disliking them is how many hotkeys they take up. Their existence will one day cause me physical injury as I try to twist my fingers in ways they were never meant to bend.

Also, one little wish I have is gear consolidation. The 4 melee DPS do not need 3 gearsets between them. I wish left-side gear classification would match the way accessories are organised (Maiming + Striking = Slaying, Scouting + Aiming = Aiming)

[MrKimper]

Branching combos get one button per combo finisher and the escalation is not dependent on which button was pushed but it depends on which skill was used beforehand.
MNK would just get buttons escalating dependend of their forms, so 3 buttons for 9 skills and you can freely choose which skill of the corresponding form you want to use.

Nobody wants that, doing DPS is already extremely easy when compared to pre HW where there were cross class buffs and buff timers we needed to be aware of. There hasn't been skill bloat as bad as that for several expansions now, it would ruin the challenge of PVE by doing this, and there can't be a "just give an option" because one is just easier to do and would give easier DPS.

Part of the challenge of learning a job is getting the muscle memory and timing down, it's actually rewarding when you get into your button groove. There's no need to take that away or alter it besides pruning oGCD skills.

[Ogulbuk]

Just because they go back on things they said they wouldn't do doesn't mean they will do it for everything. There isn't any reason to consolidate abilities for PvE and the amount of people actually requesting this is incredibly small. I don't forsee then ever doing this because there is no reason to.

Here is where I think you are wrong, I have no reference at hand but it is my understanding that YoshiP is indeed targeting the consolidation and removal of abilities for PvE, since there will be new abilities added wirh the expansion. I’m but recommending this get implemented, I am just expecting it to happen simply because it’s a low hanging fruit for action consolidation.

[arctic]

I try to temper my expectations. They've been pretty vague regarding battle system changes so I don't want to fall in love with any ideas born in my head, only to find out I was completely off the mark in May.

But what I'm hoping for is that the MCH rework they announced a while ago will do something to fix its clunkiness, ping-reliance and how hard it gets punished for any interruption in uptime. Like... come on. Wildfire is both too short to be reliable with even the slightest amount of lag and too long not to get screwed up by bosses deciding to invuln/phase/disappear before it detonates. Every fight has different timings for those moments, and knowing that one is coming up soon doesn't make the awful feeling of having to hold back our only significant way of contributing personal damage feel any less awful. Nobody else has an attack with (effectively) over 10s cast time...
And even if MCH is not supposed to be dealing consistent damage, then it must at least be able to match BRD in the support department.

Ahem... I should probably stop going before it turns into a rant. Moving on...

I hope role actions take an axe to the face. There are so many that would be better served merged into existing, job-specific abilities than existing as separate buttons. Like... Diversion. Why isn't it a secondary effect of Embolden for RDM? Why does SCH/SMN have to have Lucid Dreaming when it could simply have more MP return on Energy Drain/Aetherflow instead? And why does Protect even need a button to cast? It might as well be a passive aura for all it does. Ugh!

But really my main reason for disliking them is how many hotkeys they take up. Their existence will one day cause me physical injury as I try to twist my fingers in ways they were never meant to bend.

Also, one little wish I have is gear consolidation. The 4 melee DPS do not need 3 gearsets between them. I wish left-side gear classification would match the way accessories are organised (Maiming + Striking = Slaying, Scouting + Aiming = Aiming)

That feel when your party is doing just enough damage to push phases that causes the boss to leap off screen before wildfire goes off, but not enough dps to down the boss and you're tagged as the low dps.

[Rowde]

I feel like ppl are misunderstanding one button combo for "one button for all attacks" maybe?

My understanding of this concept would be that it would be one button for each finisher... so it would primarily only affect melee dps and tanks as it is.


Tanks for example...

WAR would have 3 combo buttons: Storm's Eye, Storm's Path and Butcher Block. Consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
PLD would have 3 combo buttons as well: Royal Authority, Goring Blade and Rage of Halone. Again, consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
DRK would only have 2 combo buttons: Soul Eater and Power Slash. Consolidating 5 buttons down to 2.

So on PLD for example, there would be 3 buttons on the hotbar that would change as such.
Fast Blade >> Savage Blade >> Rage of Halone
Fast Blade >> Riot Blade >> Goring Blade
Fast Blade >> Riot Blade >> Royal Authority

And technically this would still allow for repetition of one-two combos, for whatever reason (assume maybe PLD or DRK want to spam Riot/Syphon for MP), as the Rage of Halone Combo would reset to Fast Blade as soon as Riot Blade is pressed because that combo string can no longer be continued.

EDIT: Forgot about the AoE combo...
For Melee DPS, DRG could get the most dramatic benefit (if Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust are tacked on to the combos... which they should be).
They'd have 3 combo buttons: Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust (which actually branch into F&G and Wheeling), and Sonic Thrust. Consolidating 10 buttons down to 3.

The two single-target combos would go:
True Thrust >> Vorpal Thrust >> Full Thrust >> Fang and Claw >> Wheeling Thrust
Impulse Drive >> Disembowel >> Chaos Thrust >> Wheeling Thrust >> Fang and Claw

NIN would get 3 combo buttons: Aoelian Edge, Shadow Fang and Armor Crush. Probably the least impact though since their combos don't branch until the last hit... it would only consolidate 5 buttons down to 3.

SAM would get 3 combo buttons: Gekko, Kasha and Yukikaze. Consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
MNK could get 3 combos buttons as well: Snap Punch, Demolish and Rockbreaker. Consolidating 9 buttons down to 3.

The only difference with MNK is that the combos would progress based on the form, so they would go like this:

Dragon Kick >> Twin Snakes > Snap Punch (flank boosted attacks)
Bootshine >> True Strike >> Demolish (rear boosted attacks)
Arm of the Destroyer >> One Ilm Punch >> Rockbreaker ("special" attacks)

Regardless of whether Dragon, Boot or Arm is pressed, all 3 buttons would progress to their next step. If a form were to drop then all combo buttons would reset to the first step.


What makes MNK and SAM outliers though are Perfect Balance and Meikyo Shisui... and tbh... I'd rather see those 2 abilities get a rework so this system could work for all 7 jobs (8 assuming Gunbreaker will follow suit with at least an enmity combos and a damage combo).

[Averax]

A reduction in abilities that are either redundant or that make you play the same as another job *cough* ast *cough*.

Then some new tools and/or rotational abilities to play with

[Azper]

Get rid of/rework my worthless lillies and give me some freakin' utility already. I've already been shafted on a new healer this expansion—don't screw this up, too, dear god.

[Dyvid]

An overhaul of Physical Ranged DPS to be more "They excel at inflicting sustained damage, and also provide support for companions." BRD is really the only job that fits this quote, well and SMN but that's in the wrong category...

Adjust Melee to were you have two pure DPS and two lower DPS but debuff/buff.

Maybe the button combo from PvP to free up space for other actions, maybe.

Two main tanks and two off tanks.

Add CNJ back into WHM. Stone = Defense buff, Aero = Direct hit buff, Water = Magic buff

[Physic]

I feel like ppl are misunderstanding one button combo for "one button for all attacks" maybe?

My understanding of this concept would be that it would be one button for each finisher... so it would primarily only affect melee dps and tanks as it is.


Tanks for example...

WAR would have 3 combo buttons: Storm's Eye, Storm's Path and Butcher Block. Consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
PLD would have 3 combo buttons as well: Royal Authority, Goring Blade and Rage of Halone. Again, consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
DRK would only have 2 combo buttons: Soul Eater and Power Slash. Consolidating 5 buttons down to 2.

So on PLD for example, there would be 3 buttons on the hotbar that would change as such.
Fast Blade >> Savage Blade >> Rage of Halone
Fast Blade >> Riot Blade >> Goring Blade
Fast Blade >> Riot Blade >> Royal Authority

And technically this would still allow for repetition of one-two combos, for whatever reason (assume maybe PLD or DRK want to spam Riot/Syphon for MP), as the Rage of Halone Combo would reset to Fast Blade as soon as Riot Blade is pressed because that combo string can no longer be continued.

EDIT: Forgot about the AoE combo...
For Melee DPS, DRG could get the most dramatic benefit (if Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust are tacked on to the combos... which they should be).
They'd have 3 combo buttons: Full Thrust and Chaos Thrust (which actually branch into F&G and Wheeling), and Sonic Thrust. Consolidating 10 buttons down to 3.

The two single-target combos would go:
True Thrust >> Vorpal Thrust >> Full Thrust >> Fang and Claw >> Wheeling Thrust
Impulse Drive >> Disembowel >> Chaos Thrust >> Wheeling Thrust >> Fang and Claw

NIN would get 3 combo buttons: Aoelian Edge, Shadow Fang and Armor Crush. Probably the least impact though since their combos don't branch until the last hit... it would only consolidate 5 buttons down to 3.

SAM would get 3 combo buttons: Gekko, Kasha and Yukikaze. Consolidating 6 buttons down to 3.
MNK could get 3 combos buttons as well: Snap Punch, Demolish and Rockbreaker. Consolidating 9 buttons down to 3.

The only difference with MNK is that the combos would progress based on the form, so they would go like this:

Dragon Kick >> Twin Snakes > Snap Punch (flank boosted attacks)
Bootshine >> True Strike >> Demolish (rear boosted attacks)
Arm of the Destroyer >> One Ilm Punch >> Rockbreaker ("special" attacks)

Regardless of whether Dragon, Boot or Arm is pressed, all 3 buttons would progress to their next step. If a form were to drop then all combo buttons would reset to the first step.


What makes MNK and SAM outliers though are Perfect Balance and Meikyo Shisui... and tbh... I'd rather see those 2 abilities get a rework so this system could work for all 7 jobs (8 assuming Gunbreaker will follow suit with at least an enmity combos and a damage combo).

problem is monk can skip ahead in the combo with the skill

[HyoMinPark]

Here is where I think you are wrong, I have no reference at hand but it is my understanding that YoshiP is indeed targeting the consolidation and removal of abilities for PvE, since there will be new abilities added wirh the expansion. I’m but recommending this get implemented, I am just expecting it to happen simply because it’s a low hanging fruit for action consolidation.

You have no proof that this is the case, but you are insisting Yoshida is considering it?

From a Korean LL about 5 months ago:

Skills automatically comboing (aka press 1 button to combo) is not going to be implemented in PvE. The reason we did this in PvP while reducing the amount of total skills is that we want players to focus more on team strategy and tactics. In PvE we feel that the effective use of branching combos is one sign of player skill. As part of our current concept regarding the battle system, we are purposefully leaving the PvP and PvE systems separate.

We understand that your hotbars are mostly full. In the future, we plan on removing those skills that are used the least, so that total the number of skills to use will not drastically go up.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_translation/