Rework Bluemage!

[MrKimper]

It's a moot point, Yoshida doesn't seem to have any plans to unlimit it, he's sticking to his guns on this one. Nuff said.

[Phoenicia]

I was just sharing the source to add it to the discussion because it was relevant to what you said, though not sure where the rest of the tone of your post is directed exactly, at me or SE, the wording seems very pointed. At the end of the day you can give a rats ass or don't (I don't know you, it's not my problem) SE are sticking to what they think is the right course so you could post feedback all day about it, but they have a clear idea of what they want.



Also players have varied sources of fun and often to many different degrees to everyone else. What you might find fun may not be fun to another player, so it's kinda ironic for you to bring up something being selfish when you highlight that exact trait yourself.

Also here is another source article cementing their intentions for blu.
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiv...1832757804/amp

lol. How is my opinion a demonstration of selfishness? This is a forum for feedback, not complaining and arguing with others that their "whining" is unneeded because you like something as is.

You fighting back the people that are asking for inclusion is an act of selfishness.

Me asking that my inclusion does not exclude you is NOT selfish.

Opinions can't be selfish, they are just opinions.

My post isn't exactly directed at anyone but it has a "point" that seems to have flew right past your head. SE devs can make mistakes (they're human), and on the many times they have done so, they "stood adamant" in denying their mistakes.

2.0 WAR too weak? "Warrior is strong, it is working as intended. You head damage after you take it." but that is pointless if you can't survive taking the damage before you can attempt to heal it.

In 2.3 NIN came out too strong? It wasn't their fault, the players used rotations that wasn't intended.

HW PLD too weak? "Defensive Tank". (lol)

Blue Mage is not what we asked for? "The release of Blue Mage did not fall far from my expectations".

It's a moot point, Yoshida doesn't seem to have any plans to unlimit it, he's sticking to his guns on this one. Nuff said.

Yoshi-P and the Dev team need to keep face at the end of the day, it's understandable. However, it doesn't matter how "Clear" their stance is on something. The chance that they might succumb to what the players are actually asking for is still possible, their "clear" stance on WAR's strength in 2.0 got reversed with 2.1 buffing WAR into the beast we have now. Some-times it takes much longer, an entire expansion longer like the case of HW PLD, and suddenly this "defensive tank" is doing too much DPS and ended up too overpowered that it needed 4 nerfs and for the other two tanks to get a rework and the other to get 3 buffs to finally "get in line".

Stances can change.

[MrKimper]

Yoshi-P and the Dev team need to keep face at the end of the day, it's understandable. However, it doesn't matter how "Clear" their stance is on something. The chance that they might succumb to what the players are actually asking for is still possible, their "clear" stance on WAR's strength in 2.0 got reversed with 2.1 buffing WAR into the beast we have now. Some-times it takes much longer, an entire expansion longer like the case of HW PLD, and suddenly this "defensive tank" is doing too much DPS and ended up too overpowered that it needed 4 nerfs and for the other two tanks to get a rework and the other to get 3 buffs to finally "get in line".

Stances can change.

The issue here is that this is an entire jobs design, and from what I can gather yoshida would be looking at it from the perspective of us asking for DRK to be a DPS or SAM to be Tank, it clashes completely with the vision he has for not only the job but how it's integrated into the game on a fundamental level. I don't think any amount of wait and see is going to change that, changes to eureka are more likely than changes to BLU at this point because it's quite obvious yoshida is determined to high hell to keep it this way and bar it from duty finder. Feedback be damned.

It feels discouraging but at the end of the day I don't think there's enough CONCENTRATED outrage anywhere to give them any signal, and I'm quite sure they disregard forum posts.

[Kalise]

The issue here is that this is an entire jobs design, and from what I can gather yoshida would be looking at it from the perspective of us asking for DRK to be a DPS or SAM to be Tank, it clashes completely with the vision he has for not only the job but how it's integrated into the game on a fundamental level. I don't think any amount of wait and see is going to change that, changes to eureka are more likely than changes to BLU at this point because it's quite obvious yoshida is determined to high hell to keep it this way and bar it from duty finder. Feedback be damned.

It feels discouraging but at the end of the day I don't think there's enough CONCENTRATED outrage anywhere to give them any signal, and I'm quite sure they disregard forum posts.

It still feels pretty odd though, if he's seeing BLU's limited aspect as a "Core" and "Fundamental" part of its nature. Given that honestly, it's more of an excuse at this stage, especially when people note how powerful BLU is compared to other classes (Balanced around level 70) performance at level 50. That being, not terribly far away in reality (Outside when you don't have all the relevant spells to do your DPS rotation in which case BLU is massively UP compared to other jobs)

Unless he's sticking to the fallacy that the Learning mechanic can only function in a Limited Job design space (Despite numerous ideas that would make this not be the case, at least noted on these English forums. Who knows if JP forums raised any ideas about the same) and due to that BLU inherently needs to be a Limited Job because without Learning it isn't BLU.

But, it has been noted (Including in JP forums) that nothing about BLU feels like it justifies being Limited. Nothing seems inherently massively OP in a way that can't be easily adjusted (Insta-kill spells, White Wind and low level 1000 Needles). The Learning mechanic doesn't seem like something that is notably prohibitive (Outside the intentional decision to put core DPS spells behind level 50 dungeons and EX Trials. Which is a bit of a back handed play, saying "Gotta Limit BLU because what if someone tries to do dungeons but they haven't learned all the spells people would want them to have" and then INTENTIONALLY designing it so that spells people would want them to have are not only incapable of being obtained solo by BLU, but also have horrendous RNG learn rates. You can't just state that a particular issue is causing a certain design and then make the design actually create that issue in the first place...)

I guess we'll see though... Come 5.x when the first round of updates comes for BLU and people get to see the direction Yoshida has planned and see if more directed outrage crops up.

[Kurando]

snip.

That's pretty damn selfish of you.

As I stated, it was not clear whether your response was directed at me personally or if your target was SE hence when you mentioned the above. The wording seemed like it was at me and the tone of the rest of the post did as well. To which I thought hold on, BLU isn't my creation why is she/he coming at me about it. I'm also in no way saying players can't ask for change, I'm not stopping them from doing that at all nor am I shutting them down at every instance, so to say I'm fighting back is an act of selfish on this occasion is wholeheartedly incorrect, I'm sharing my opinion on the situation just like everyone else and yourself. I also never once used the term "whining", try not to quote things that aren't there. It could very well just be miscommunication that got us here, so let's leave that there shall we and focus on the topic.

However if we go on the facts (which is why sources are provided) SE have a roadmap on what they want to do and that it seems to be sticking to that for the time being (so lvl cap to 60, more spells, carnival stuff etc). I want to see how these pan out before advocating for any kind of rework, but I'm not against anything happening sooner, I just think it would still be premature at this stage and that BLU hasn't been around long enough to warrant it.

Yes it's true the devs stance might change, the job could very well go in a different direction perhaps one that more players prefer, but as I highlighted earlier in the thread it's difficult to get an exact idea of what players actually want moving forward. Some want a full job, some don't, if anything SE needs to do an actual official survey for the job sent to everyone (with sub) so they can get the required feedback, the forums are not enough to get a big picture. As either SE read select feedback and take it BLU is fine, or they are in a bubble and it's not, meaning they COULD be in denial but I don't know how they correlate their data for this stuff.

I also probably wouldn't use previous jobs as an example (PLD, NIN, WAR) as they were not Limited Jobs, and changes made to them had a greater effect on gameplay in comparison to BLU. Like Yoshi mentioned in that article they thought BLU was powerful (take that as you will), but as they restricted the job anyway they probably aren't putting balance as a priority, it doesn't really matter if they are under or over powered, at least for now.

[Phoenicia]

...

Using a hypothetical "you" is easier to express some discussions which might deliver a better message.

As for "waiting long enough to warrant it", it depends on many things and speaking from experience, if they "wait" until something warrants change, it is already too late. ESPECIALLY when you account for their very limited resources and the player-base perceptions, which is very slow to change because first impressions matter most. Just look at tanks in Stormblood, SE removed the stance switch gauge penalty as they released Deltascape, people just didn't use WAR. DRK got 3 buffs and PLD 4 nerfs, yet when given the option people would exclude DRK from their groups.

We should use previous jobs as examples as they are "content". Content and jobs are made by the same people. They made mistakes when they were made or changed, "stuck to their guns" for a while, then submit to fix their mistakes. 2.0 WAR was a mistake. 2.3 NIN power was a mistake. HW PLD was a mistake. Diadem was a mistake.

Yoshida said 2.0 WAR was powerful in a very similar article back in 2013 just like how is he claiming BLU is strong now in an article in 2019. It's irrelevant what he thinks or says. He will say anything to save face.

So what they did with BLU is also a mistake in the form that it is not what the people that wanted BLU asked for. I personally was on the indifferent camp to be frank, but seeing how, despite complaining about all the limited resources to why we're not getting many things we ask for, we are getting content we're not even asking for.

Regardless of whither an unidentified amount of people like said content or not. People played and mained HW PLD. Others enjoyed Diadem. I, myself, played 2.0 WAR. Did not mean that WAR did deserve buffs in 2.0, or HW PLD needed help or for Diadem to be rethought completely for them to create Eureka (which is a much better Diadem even though it is not my cup of tea).

Speaking of the "limited resource" excuse, I hate this more so than the old "memory limitation" back when they still had PS3 support. I mean what are they placing all money we keep forking for those extra retainers, mounts, outfits and fantasias, eh? As a paying customer, one of my simplest rights is to express where I am not satisfied by what I'm given for what I paid. Specially that one of the reasons I keep paying is the promise of future satisfaction with future content, of which BLU and Diadem did not fulfill.

[Shadow_Sama]

I feel so bad for the players who have been waiting on their favorite job to make it into the game only for it to become a limited job. I never had any interest in BLU becoming my main job. However, I was excited with the people who were really anticipating this job. I was happy for them knowing they were gonna play the job they always wanted. But from the outside looking in, I feel it's devastating to know that the job you've been holding out on for years and have been looking most forward to playing comes out as a limited job.

I love Ninja. I've been playing since 1.0 and I remember that yearning to play as a Ninja since 1.0 first came out. When they announced Ninja I was ecstatic. I was so excited and happy after waiting for years to finally play my Ninja job. I can only imagine the level of disappointment to be in that frame of mind only to discover that what you've wanted is limited and can never truly be. Blue Mage deserves to be a full job and I shutter to think that they would do this again. To Beast Master? Geomancer? let me not give them any ideas. I think Limited Jobs are a terrible idea, and it's a decision I cannot stand by with Yoshi P on.

The dev team should rework BLU and make it into a full job without a doubt.