Rework Bluemage!

[Kalise]

The issue here is that this is an entire jobs design, and from what I can gather yoshida would be looking at it from the perspective of us asking for DRK to be a DPS or SAM to be Tank, it clashes completely with the vision he has for not only the job but how it's integrated into the game on a fundamental level. I don't think any amount of wait and see is going to change that, changes to eureka are more likely than changes to BLU at this point because it's quite obvious yoshida is determined to high hell to keep it this way and bar it from duty finder. Feedback be damned.

It feels discouraging but at the end of the day I don't think there's enough CONCENTRATED outrage anywhere to give them any signal, and I'm quite sure they disregard forum posts.

It still feels pretty odd though, if he's seeing BLU's limited aspect as a "Core" and "Fundamental" part of its nature. Given that honestly, it's more of an excuse at this stage, especially when people note how powerful BLU is compared to other classes (Balanced around level 70) performance at level 50. That being, not terribly far away in reality (Outside when you don't have all the relevant spells to do your DPS rotation in which case BLU is massively UP compared to other jobs)

Unless he's sticking to the fallacy that the Learning mechanic can only function in a Limited Job design space (Despite numerous ideas that would make this not be the case, at least noted on these English forums. Who knows if JP forums raised any ideas about the same) and due to that BLU inherently needs to be a Limited Job because without Learning it isn't BLU.

But, it has been noted (Including in JP forums) that nothing about BLU feels like it justifies being Limited. Nothing seems inherently massively OP in a way that can't be easily adjusted (Insta-kill spells, White Wind and low level 1000 Needles). The Learning mechanic doesn't seem like something that is notably prohibitive (Outside the intentional decision to put core DPS spells behind level 50 dungeons and EX Trials. Which is a bit of a back handed play, saying "Gotta Limit BLU because what if someone tries to do dungeons but they haven't learned all the spells people would want them to have" and then INTENTIONALLY designing it so that spells people would want them to have are not only incapable of being obtained solo by BLU, but also have horrendous RNG learn rates. You can't just state that a particular issue is causing a certain design and then make the design actually create that issue in the first place...)

I guess we'll see though... Come 5.x when the first round of updates comes for BLU and people get to see the direction Yoshida has planned and see if more directed outrage crops up.

[Kurando]

snip.

That's pretty damn selfish of you.

As I stated, it was not clear whether your response was directed at me personally or if your target was SE hence when you mentioned the above. The wording seemed like it was at me and the tone of the rest of the post did as well. To which I thought hold on, BLU isn't my creation why is she/he coming at me about it. I'm also in no way saying players can't ask for change, I'm not stopping them from doing that at all nor am I shutting them down at every instance, so to say I'm fighting back is an act of selfish on this occasion is wholeheartedly incorrect, I'm sharing my opinion on the situation just like everyone else and yourself. I also never once used the term "whining", try not to quote things that aren't there. It could very well just be miscommunication that got us here, so let's leave that there shall we and focus on the topic.

However if we go on the facts (which is why sources are provided) SE have a roadmap on what they want to do and that it seems to be sticking to that for the time being (so lvl cap to 60, more spells, carnival stuff etc). I want to see how these pan out before advocating for any kind of rework, but I'm not against anything happening sooner, I just think it would still be premature at this stage and that BLU hasn't been around long enough to warrant it.

Yes it's true the devs stance might change, the job could very well go in a different direction perhaps one that more players prefer, but as I highlighted earlier in the thread it's difficult to get an exact idea of what players actually want moving forward. Some want a full job, some don't, if anything SE needs to do an actual official survey for the job sent to everyone (with sub) so they can get the required feedback, the forums are not enough to get a big picture. As either SE read select feedback and take it BLU is fine, or they are in a bubble and it's not, meaning they COULD be in denial but I don't know how they correlate their data for this stuff.

I also probably wouldn't use previous jobs as an example (PLD, NIN, WAR) as they were not Limited Jobs, and changes made to them had a greater effect on gameplay in comparison to BLU. Like Yoshi mentioned in that article they thought BLU was powerful (take that as you will), but as they restricted the job anyway they probably aren't putting balance as a priority, it doesn't really matter if they are under or over powered, at least for now.

[Phoenicia]

...

Using a hypothetical "you" is easier to express some discussions which might deliver a better message.

As for "waiting long enough to warrant it", it depends on many things and speaking from experience, if they "wait" until something warrants change, it is already too late. ESPECIALLY when you account for their very limited resources and the player-base perceptions, which is very slow to change because first impressions matter most. Just look at tanks in Stormblood, SE removed the stance switch gauge penalty as they released Deltascape, people just didn't use WAR. DRK got 3 buffs and PLD 4 nerfs, yet when given the option people would exclude DRK from their groups.

We should use previous jobs as examples as they are "content". Content and jobs are made by the same people. They made mistakes when they were made or changed, "stuck to their guns" for a while, then submit to fix their mistakes. 2.0 WAR was a mistake. 2.3 NIN power was a mistake. HW PLD was a mistake. Diadem was a mistake.

Yoshida said 2.0 WAR was powerful in a very similar article back in 2013 just like how is he claiming BLU is strong now in an article in 2019. It's irrelevant what he thinks or says. He will say anything to save face.

So what they did with BLU is also a mistake in the form that it is not what the people that wanted BLU asked for. I personally was on the indifferent camp to be frank, but seeing how, despite complaining about all the limited resources to why we're not getting many things we ask for, we are getting content we're not even asking for.

Regardless of whither an unidentified amount of people like said content or not. People played and mained HW PLD. Others enjoyed Diadem. I, myself, played 2.0 WAR. Did not mean that WAR did deserve buffs in 2.0, or HW PLD needed help or for Diadem to be rethought completely for them to create Eureka (which is a much better Diadem even though it is not my cup of tea).

Speaking of the "limited resource" excuse, I hate this more so than the old "memory limitation" back when they still had PS3 support. I mean what are they placing all money we keep forking for those extra retainers, mounts, outfits and fantasias, eh? As a paying customer, one of my simplest rights is to express where I am not satisfied by what I'm given for what I paid. Specially that one of the reasons I keep paying is the promise of future satisfaction with future content, of which BLU and Diadem did not fulfill.

[Shadow_Sama]

I feel so bad for the players who have been waiting on their favorite job to make it into the game only for it to become a limited job. I never had any interest in BLU becoming my main job. However, I was excited with the people who were really anticipating this job. I was happy for them knowing they were gonna play the job they always wanted. But from the outside looking in, I feel it's devastating to know that the job you've been holding out on for years and have been looking most forward to playing comes out as a limited job.

I love Ninja. I've been playing since 1.0 and I remember that yearning to play as a Ninja since 1.0 first came out. When they announced Ninja I was ecstatic. I was so excited and happy after waiting for years to finally play my Ninja job. I can only imagine the level of disappointment to be in that frame of mind only to discover that what you've wanted is limited and can never truly be. Blue Mage deserves to be a full job and I shutter to think that they would do this again. To Beast Master? Geomancer? let me not give them any ideas. I think Limited Jobs are a terrible idea, and it's a decision I cannot stand by with Yoshi P on.

The dev team should rework BLU and make it into a full job without a doubt.

[Valdegarde]

This is...very disappointing news, to say the least. I don't really like the direction this game is going if iconic jobs like this are being treated in such a manner and fan feedback is being immediately disregarded. I'm not going to be one of those people that uses unsubbing as blackmail, but...I think it's time for me to take a good, long break from this game, for my own hopefully continued enjoyment in the future.

[Mito123]

I feel like lately Yoshida and the devs is just clueless. It's like they purposely don't give a damn about blu at all. Not only that but also don't give a damn about our opinions. I already know by the time 5.x that's comes out Blu will be dead before then. Might be dead now considering I don't see any Blu out there unless it's people who haven't played it yet. Like I said before I wish this next healer will be limited so more people can rage and make Yoshida and devs understand the idea that limited jobs are idiocy

[redcurrant18]

I feel like lately Yoshida and the devs is just clueless. It's like they purposely don't give a damn about blu at all. Not only that but also don't give a damn about our opinions. I already know by the time 5.x that's comes out Blu will be dead before then. Might be dead now considering I don't see any Blu out there unless it's people who haven't played it yet. Like I said before I wish this next healer will be limited so more people can rage and make Yoshida and devs understand the idea that limited jobs are idiocy

If they make dancer limited I'm deleting my SE account and not coming back.

[MrKimper]

If they make dancer limited I'm deleting my SE account and not coming back.

I don't think they'd make dancer limited, it's quite obvious they intend to use limited jobs for fan requested jobs they don't feel like putting the effort into integrating into the system. Honestly it's quite obvious which jobs they intend to make full jobs and which they'd just throw into the limited bin. I don't they'll limit a healer, most likely all limited jobs will be DPS with the abilities to "multi-role"

[Allistar]

He will never change bluemage his mind has already been made up this is what he wants and unfortunately people like me who actually enjoyed playing blue mage in previous final fantasy games especially in XI no longer have a desire to even play blue mage in FFXIV in its current state

[Mekami]

Bluemage in its current state is a time sink and nothing more. The main point of Blue mage, the Masked Carnivale, needs skills from ARR end game content to reliably do. Of said skills, The drop rate for skills from primals is so stupidly low, that if a party of 8 lvl 50s got together they'd be spending WEEKS on lvl 50 content that nobody enjoys doing just to get one stupid skill. As it is, people go into lvl 50 content with lvl 70s carrying them. Even then it takes hours to days to get any skill whatsoever from the primals.

And anyone who says, "It's supposed to be solo. You're supposed to solo content with it." I don't think anyone can solo Aurum Vale, which is required to get Glower for the Masked Carnivale. They either have to get a party of 4 lvl 50s or hope a lvl 70 comes by and helps them. And beyond that, the EX Primals are so not solo-able it's laughable to even think that. They also take a lot of time with full party of lvl 50s, about 10 minutes each time. The primals are so bad, that some of them require 2 lvl 70s to be able to carry some blue mages. If you need 100 runs to get a skill on avg, then that's a LOT of time sunk into one single skill that's only semi-usable. It's a grind, plain and simple. Nothing more or less.

So, while it IS fun to get skills from overworld mobs, it's not so fun from content that you have to cheat the system and use PF for. Or beg lvl 70s to come and basically do your job for you. This class is anything but "solo content".