Please no more Eureka!

[Reynhart]

I've already given the specific examples for the latter which seems to have gone over your head as you have not even bothered refuting a single one of them.

The specifics ? You mean your sentence about "trinkets are what casual tends to find appeal in" ? Completely missing that aside from gear, everything is trinkets, whatever type of player you are.

The point I was making: "It's not a very different scenario when your audience majority don't enjoy the process of either of them, yet you persistently try and nudge them into doing it."

Which is still a wrong point. People complained far more when they had to clear Titan Hard than when they had to farm Crystals in FATE, because they at least could do that leisurely. And you're still claiming that you know what the majority thinks of any type of content, without any actual data on it...

Are ad homs all you've got? This is at least the second time you've had to resort to that now.

I wouldn't have to if you could make a point not based on your own claims and wrong assumptions.

Which as usual, starts dwindling relatively quick when the grinders and hypesters are done.

Which is funny, that's exactly why people predicted that Anemos would die in a couple months...yet you always find plenty of people in it.

Just because it never existed before does not make it any less ideal to implement in a piece of content that doesn't actually have that much story to it.

You have complete right to not like it, but since the specifics of Eureka has been clearly stated (We knew it would be old-school, punishing, tied to a story, would contain the whole relic and with its own leveling system), it was easy to reach the conclusion that it wasn't for you. I won't go into Savage, Ultimate or PvP and complain that it's too much different from EX Dungeons or that it's the only way to obtain a Savage, Ultimate or PvP Weapon.

The relic concept should've been flexible, as I've previously said.

Since you have access to another powerful weapon to enter every content you want, there's no reason why the Relic should be available outside of Eureka.

What a surprise, trying to put my persona in the spotlight yet again, now attached to a redundant question. At this point I can only believe you lack self control.

Again, everything about Eureka was clearly stated, it should have been easy for anyone to realize if it was meant for them. Yet you still have numerous people coming there complaining that the game "forced" them to do a content that they hate, or that even sometimes physically hurt them...

In case it wasn't clear before, I'm not overtly against the incorporation of dated gameplay in an otherwise modern game to please a specific crowd as long as they don't pour the same amount of resource as Eureka into it then try to shoehorn players who would not care for any of it under normal circumstances.

Considering lots of people seemed to complain about the lack of "open-world" content, you can't really please them it you don't give them an open-world with severals objectives here and there. And it's not like the game lost a lot of activities for the sake of Eureka...

[Bobkitty]

The specifics ? You mean your sentence about "trinkets are what casual tends to find appeal in" ? Completely missing that aside from gear, everything is trinkets, whatever type of player you are.

I don't like quoting myself but since you've missed the entire point for the third time now and have only managed to acknowledge one part out of the whole sentence to alter the context here it is:

"You don't create massive landscapes for over 100 players per instance, advertise open world exploration and story, put relics behind it which is mostly for glamour purposes anyway then throw other aesthetics trinkets along with that" (For something that is made for a "small fraction of the playerbase")

Which is still a wrong point. People complained far more when they had to clear Titan Hard than when they had to farm Crystals in FATE, because they at least could do that leisurely. And you're still claiming that you know what the majority thinks of any type of content, without any actual data on it...

The entire point was being forced or cajoled into doing something you don't like = bad. Can intuition and logic not comprehend something so simple that it requires stats to back it up?

I've already dumbed this down once by creating a more relatable scenario, your response was yet another tangent and deflection that does not refute anything I've said as you've made it clear that both titan and atma got complaints, but where is your 'data' for the disparity of complaints anyway (not that it actually matters in this context)?

I wouldn't have to if you could make a point not based on your own claims and wrong assumptions.

Actually you only did because you had no real argument as mentioned above and had to resort to childish tactics, which is typically the case in most discussions when ad homs and tangents start appearing.

Which is funny, that's exactly why people predicted that Anemos would die in a couple months...yet you always find plenty of people in it.

It does noticeably depopulate until a new area is about to be introduced. Less instances used + more players concentrated in the few of them does not negate the fact. Again neither new nor surprising, just part of the content cycle since ARR Relics. My point was that people who are late will still be disadvantaged as a result and a more flexible design (instead of just nerfs) should be in place to avert some of the issues the current/previous design presents.

(We knew it would be old-school, punishing, tied to a story, would contain the whole relic and with its own leveling system), it was easy to reach the conclusion that it wasn't for you.

Not even a response to what I've said but if that were the case, and the only case then it would've been acceptable that it's for a "small audience". Except, as I've mentioned before, a lot of resource and focus was placed onto the actual product along with its marketing tactics that says otherwise.

Since you have access to another powerful weapon to enter every content you want, there's no reason why the Relic should be available outside of Eureka.

Because relic was outside of Eureka before Eureka? Yet again, another deflection with nothing to do with what I said.

Again, everything about Eureka was clearly stated, it should have been easy for anyone to realize if it was meant for them. Yet you still have numerous people coming there complaining that the game "forced" them to do a content that they hate, or that even sometimes physically hurt them...

I (along with countless others) have already explained why that happened the way it did.

Once again, if you can grasp the method in which Eureka was marketed to the players then the backlash should be no mystery or surprise.

Considering lots of people seemed to complain about the lack of "open-world" content, you can't really please them it you don't give them an open-world with severals objectives here and there. And it's not like the game lost a lot of activities for the sake of Eureka...

Most players did look forward to experiencing the open world, it was only poorly executed in the end as the playstyle itself was not designed for them.

That still does not negate the fact that at least 50% of the work put into Eureka could have been better spent.

[Reynhart]

"You don't create massive landscapes for over 100 players per instance, advertise open world exploration and story, put relics behind it which is mostly for glamour purposes anyway then throw other aesthetics trinkets along with that" (For something that is made for a "small fraction of the playerbase")

And you're so convinced that you know what ressources the Dev Team should put into what kind of content that you're willing to ignore :

• Eureka was described as a niche content
• Eureka mechanics makes it clearly not likable for the majority
• Yoshi-P has stated that he was suprised by how much people actually tried Eureka
• Yoshi-P has stated that, as a director, it's important for him to experiment new ideas, even if some of them might not work as well as expected
• Yoshi-P stated that is was important for him to redirect ressources to these new types of content
• Another niche content, namely PVP, constantly receives new updates, including new maps, new rules, its own ranking system, its own gameplay, its own actions and its own adjustements.

Does it not puzzle you, even a little ?

The entire point was being forced or cajoled into doing something you don't like = bad. Can intuition and logic not comprehend something so simple that it requires stats to back it up?

Which is still irelevant, since, again, no one forces you to do something you don't like, and that some people like challenging content for the adrenaline rush, while other likes FATE farming because it's not as stressful. So maybe you should use the logic of "Don't like it ? Don't do it"

Less instances used + more players concentrated in the few of them does not negate the fact.

Considering that the "fact" is how difficult it would be for a newcomer to clear past zones to reach Hydatos, easily finding full instances in fact completely negates the issue.

Because relic was outside of Eureka before Eureka? Yet again, another deflection with nothing to do with what I said.

Except that past relics didn't have the same purpose. In ARR, relic was the casual powerful weapon, and the way to keep old content alive. In HW, Tome weapon was made available even without raiding or waiting for the catch-up patch (First hint), Wondrous Tails took the burden of keeping the old contant alive (Second hint), and there was longtime complaint that the Relic didn't receive its own content since the very first iteration (Third hint).
Come Stormblood, the relic got its own content, doesn't have anything to do with older content, and is in no way competitive for new content. So, bascially, you completely missed that Heavensward slowly shifted the purpose and the target audience for the relic and you still cling to what it was in ARR.

Once again, if you can grasp the method in which Eureka was marketed to the players then the backlash should be no mystery or surprise.

Again, Eureka was not marketed for the wide audience, you just assumed the amount of ressources that should be placed in a niche content, and deduced from your assumption that Eureka then must be made for the majority, without any actual info on how far Yoshi-P and the dev team would go to experiment something new, and even when every official statement clearly said the opposite of your assumption.

[Bobkitty]

And you're so convinced that you know what ressources the Dev Team should put into what kind of content that you're willing to ignore :

Eureka was described as a niche content
Eureka mechanics makes it clearly not likable for the majority
How the initial product was described contradicts the method of promotion employed since - I've made this clear 4 times now. So there is no point bringing it up again.

Yoshida could tell you he doesn't drink, then drinks with his colleagues after work. Judging by your responses, you'd be the person who'd say "He doesn't drink because he said so".

Yoshi-P has stated that, as a director, it's important for him to experiment new ideas, even if some of them might not work as well as expected
Well it turned out not to be such a new idea did it? Though I've never actually said anything negative about experimenting with new ideas. So this point is unnecessary.

Yoshi-P has stated that he was suprised by how much people actually tried Eureka
Is that suppose to be a twist? After all the big noise they've made before/during the expansion, people were actually curious enough to give Eureka a try afterall! Surprise of the century. We've also already discussed the playerbase wanting open world activity, so this is just a redundant point.

Another niche content, namely PVP, constantly receives new updates, including new maps, new rules, its own ranking system, its own gameplay, its own actions and its own adjustements.
It received similar criticisms for its baity promotions to get people playing, people who normally wouldn't care otherwise. The rest of that is a different subject matter, far from the focus of this narrative, but yet another tangent from you.

Yoshi-P stated that is was important for him to redirect ressources to these new types of content
And? When did I ever say the staff should not be allowed to allocate resources onto side content?

None of these points actually refute what I've said and is mostly just you going on a tangent as usual.

no one forces you to do something you don't like, and that some people like challenging content for the adrenaline rush, while other likes FATE farming because it's not as stressful. So maybe you should use the logic of "Don't like it ? Don't do it"

So, you missed the point yet again, for the 3rd time now? The fact is they used bait tactics to get people playing something they would normally dislike. Example, if I go around sweet-talking people nonstop to eat dead rats for a million dollars, increasing the sum until they cave in to my wishes, it's not a whole lot different from forcing them is it? It's called psychological manipulation. There is your relevance.

"Don't like it ? Don't do it" - Isn't that EA's attitude regarding BFV? Because that turned out so brilliantly for them. /S

Considering that the "fact" is how difficult it would be for a newcomer to clear past zones to reach Hydatos, easily finding full instances in fact completely negates the issue.

So what you're really saying is; it's acceptable to continue the standard/practice to have new players endure worst aspects of the current content before they could access the more refined version of it?

Except that past relics didn't have the same purpose...

What I said was out of purely satirical intent as a response to your inability to stay on track for the __ time. I did not expect you to actually take the bait.

Again, Eureka was not marketed for the wide audience, you just assumed the amount of ressources that should be placed in a niche content, and deduced from your assumption that Eureka then must be made for the majority, without any actual info on how far Yoshi-P and the dev team would go to experiment something new, and even when every official statement clearly said the opposite of your assumption.

You've gone back to square one again for a matter that I've addressed countless times already. You accuse me of making baseless assumptions, yet you've made your fair share. My narrative was not solely based on "They put x amount of resources into y content, so it must be for a wide audience!!!".

But if that was the only thing you've picked up from our interactions, then I suggest you work on your reading comprehension before you reply to someone, as it is rather silly when the person I'm conversing with compulsively goes on tangents, uses deflections, misconstrues/misses one point after another/nitpicks in an attempt to spin things out of context and resorts to passive-aggressive ad homs, all of which tends to happen conveniently in place of where an actual rebuttal is expected to be.

With that said, it is likely you are doing it on purpose under a rhetoric that revolves around persistently bringing up as many unrelated/redundant points to the table as possible in an attempt to shift the subject matter/shoot in the dark then retreat and resort to childish tricks/rinse and repeat when it backfires. Any tangents or other cheap gimmicks from this point on won't be taken seriously, as I'll only accept direct refutations.

PS. 5th time I've had to regurgitate this now: Actions have contradicted statements. Everything else about this you will find in every other post I've made herein. I will no longer simplify/reword them anymore since it'd go over your head, intentionally or not.