Please no more Eureka!

[Reynhart]

Most of us are older gamers now who have forgone the days where we felt like wasting 8 hours grinding a sliver of exp or 1% progress towards a questline was fun.

If you can't progress faster than that in Eureka, then you're doing something wrong.

[Sigma-Astra]

If you can't progress faster than that in Eureka, then you're doing something wrong.

Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

[RyuDragnier]

Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

Was lurking until now, but I have to respond here. The relic was always meant for something to be done over time, not gotten quickly like raid, crafting, or tomestone weapons. Just looking at the earlier relics can tell you it was always meant to be a grind, and doing things you didn't want to do. The original ARR relic required us to actually go through the hard mode primals back when they were actually difficult, kill 10 different endgame monsters 10 times, do multiple FATEs (which everybody dislikes), and run through multiple dungeons praying for a drop and do a crapton of other things nobody liked. I understand the frustration involved currently, but the relic has always been an annoying grind doing things you didn't want to do, always. Not once has it forced people to do anything, it has always been your choice to do it. Do not act like this relic is any different from the past ones.

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

Also please lay off the personal insults, no need for incivility.

[Sigma-Astra]

Was lurking until now, but I have to respond here. The relic was always meant for something to be done over time, not gotten quickly like raid, crafting, or tomestone weapons. Just looking at the earlier relics can tell you it was always meant to be a grind, and doing things you didn't want to do. The original ARR relic required us to actually go through the hard mode primals back when they were actually difficult, kill 10 different endgame monsters 10 times, do multiple FATEs (which everybody dislikes), and run through multiple dungeons praying for a drop and do a crapton of other things nobody liked. I understand the frustration involved currently, but the relic has always been an annoying grind doing things you didn't want to do, always. Not once has it forced people to do anything, it has always been your choice to do it. Do not act like this relic is any different from the past ones.

It is different from the past ones because the grinds included different things that you needed to do: you needed to go back to the hard mode primals for one step, another step had you doing FATES, another step had you procuring or crafting CERTAIN items. Yes, the tediousness of the grind was still always there because it was the relic, but it had you MOVING to different areas and doing different things each step of the way. You never stayed within one instance for the entirety of the grind and you could solo most of the steps without burdening other people.

Now, we have the relic tied to an entire instance where you are basically doing the same crap over and over again just in a different scenery. You are forced into an entirely predictable routine and instead of being able to casually just sort of grind out certain steps on your own without being in a party, you are forced to party with other people just to get anywhere and some people just coming in are having a really hard time stomaching through Pyros and leveling.

I enjoyed the past relics because, as repetitious as it was, each part had me at least doing or going somewhere else. It also had parts where I didn't always have to rely on my FC members to get things done and could be self-sufficient since not everyone likes to be bothered with relic shenanigans.

The rewards are simply not worth the amount of work anymore and a good portion of people are starting to see that from Eureka. It's why people dropped Diadem so quickly once we all learned what the true nature of that place was and the initial "fun" of it quickly died within the first few weeks.

Also please lay off the personal insults, no need for incivility.

Telling someone that something flew right over their head or they took it too seriously and were nitpicking it for the sake of nitpicking it into a hyperbole isn't a personal insult. Calm down.

[Nariel]

snip

For some part of it yes, but other required nothing as set in stone as eureka, HW has some step not even requiring anything special, just do your daily basis and progress even a little on it, you could do whatever the hell you want and still progress your relic slowly, light farm wasn't locked in X place killing absurd amount of trash or fates, you could just gain light by playing normaly farming anything else during the process and still progressing in your relics.

The most funny part is that the most hated part of relics AKA Atma was about chaining fate people despise so much and what we get in eureka ? Yup fate in anemos, fate in pagos, fate in pyros and guess what ?! Fate in hydatos. So much variety it hurt.

[Laphael]

Anyone could tell that was an exaggerated example, but still somewhat relative in regards to Eureka about the idea that most people are over the senseless grinds in MMO games as a measure of "fun" and engaging content, even worse when things like the relic are tied to it that some players may find important to them.

Except for you apparently, but I should have seen that one coming.

If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.
MMOs need grind to stay alive and keep the Players which spend a few hours a day playing.
Nobody will like every kind of content an MMO offers, i don´t like pvp for example and wont do any ultimates, but since there are ppl who want it, im totally ok with the devs putting time and ressources into it.

[Sigma-Astra]

If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.
MMOs need grind to stay alive and keep the Players which spend a few hours a day playing.
Nobody will like every kind of content an MMO offers, i don´t like pvp for example and wont do any ultimates, but since there are ppl who want it, im totally ok with the devs putting time and ressources into it.

MMO's don't need grinds to stay alive. If that were the case then we'd all still be playing Everquest. I only spend a few hours a day playing because I work 7 days a week. What's your point? By your logic, Eureka was made specifically for people like myself (it's not).

Also:

If you are not up for some grind you should probably rather play a single player game or skip the grind part of MMOs.

This is a terrible rebuttal towards anything. Even single player games can have grinds in them and the idea of a person not liking what Eureka has turned into doesn't mean that they need to start playing single player games. Criticism isn't a bad thing, assuming everything that the devs make is perfect is.

[Laphael]

MMO's don't need grinds to stay alive.

I played quite a few mmos and all of them had grind content. Pls tell me one that doesn´t and is still alive.
Or, maybe our definition of grind is different.

[Sigma-Astra]

I played quite a few mmos and all of them had grind content. Pls tell me one that doesn´t and is still alive.
Or, maybe our definition of grind is different.

Don't purposely be obtuse to solely fit your narrative. Grinding is not the only thing that keeps MMO's alive and you know it. Again, if grinding was the only thing people needed to stay then there wouldn't be a need for other MMO's with different combat styles, content, settings, etc.

You're willfully being obtuse about this for no reason really.

[Nariel]

I played quite a few mmos and all of them had grind content. Pls tell me one that doesn´t and is still alive.
Or, maybe our definition of grind is different.

You act like grind is grind its alway the same in every game, everywhere, like grind can't be fun or rewarding it has to be boring, plain and meaningless and people just can't deal with it and should play solo game because solo game don't have grind, grind is a MMO thing so obviously if you don't like grind in one MMO you just don't like MMO.