Can we remove Tank Stance?

[Khalithar]

Why does tank stance need the damage penalty? So that once you learn to plan your mitigation correctly, you can get rewarded for it with more damage - same as healers get rewarded with more damage gcds once they plan out their heal cds. It adds more room to improve your gameplay.

Like I mentioned on an earlier page, I’m fine with stances for every tank but pld. Drk and War get some options in their dps stance with some different moves and cooldowns. Paladin though? We get a slightly buffed auto attack and all we need to for max damage is stand next to the boss.

Paladin has no extra moves that depend on your stance. I want them to make Paladin have to do *something* in dps stance to make it require a little more effort. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request. If sword oath is going to stay exactly the same still in SBR I’d rather they just scrap the stances for Paladin and do something different.

[Jandor]

Paladin though? We get a slightly buffed auto attack and all we need to for max damage is stand next to the boss.

Paladin has no extra moves that depend on your stance. I want them to make Paladin have to do *something* in dps stance to make it require a little more effort.

I always thought it would be cool if 'Sword Oath' had you literally put your shield away and shift to a more offensive stance, with your shield related abilities changing to sword and magic ones.

[Satarn]

Like I mentioned on an earlier page, I’m fine with stances for every tank but pld. Drk and War get some options in their dps stance with some different moves and cooldowns. Paladin though? We get a slightly buffed auto attack and all we need to for max damage is stand next to the boss.

Paladin has no extra moves that depend on your stance. I want them to make Paladin have to do *something* in dps stance to make it require a little more effort. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request. If sword oath is going to stay exactly the same still in SBR I’d rather they just scrap the stances for Paladin and do something different.

Did you even really read what you replied to though? It's not about getting "extra moves", it's about the passive mitigation you lose which encourages you to plan your cooldowns better, unless you wanna be a Single Rampart PLD(tm) who thinks autos are healer's job, costing said healers gcds worth of damage, which hurts overall rDPS. It's not even like WAR really gets anything other than damage in Deliverance, they just lose healing and mitigation on IB. DRK is the only one that differs because of Blood Weapon actually being gameplay-changing compared to Blood Price.

Honestly I am not opposed to PLD getting something for Sword Oath - I doubt they'd get anything even remotely complex, because SE seems hellbent on keeping the PLD an absolute snoozefest - but sure, I don't care either way. I just don't see what does this have to do with removing stances or with what I posted.

Counterpoint: All of this would still be true if the defensive and enmity bonuses of tank stance were always on.

I already said:

Why does tank stance need the damage penalty? So that once you learn to plan your mitigation correctly, you can get rewarded for it with more damage - same as healers get rewarded with more damage gcds once they plan out their heal cds. It adds more room to improve your gameplay.

Making tank stance bonuses permanent would be mechanically the same as removing damage penalty. Lack of damage stance bonuses is part of that penalty. If you can stay in damage stance while keeping exactly same passive mitigation, hence not hindering the healers even if you don't know what fluff cds are, then it is no longer a reward.

[Arkdra]

Making tank stance bonuses permanent would be mechanically the same as removing damage penalty. Lack of damage stance bonuses is part of that penalty. If you can stay in damage stance while keeping exactly same passive mitigation, hence not hindering the healers even if you don't know what fluff cds are, then it is no longer a reward.

So what? Do you really feel like stance dancing is a reward? More than anything, I don't feel like I am being rewarded for being in damage stance, I feel like I am being put upon when I have to be in tank stance. I also feel annoyed when I queue as not a tank and get some nerdo who spends the entire dungeon in tank stance. Or conversely, queue into a real low level dungeon and get some sprout who isn't using it.

The only compelling argument for tank stances I've seen so far are the people who are so on the ball that they occasionally swap to it for extra mitigation for tank busters or when healers are under too much pressure. I don't think leaving in this fiddly mechanic for those people to eke out a couple percents worth of effectiveness through clever play is an effective counterweight to the never ending pile of tanks that clown it in either direction. There should be better, more interesting means for skilled players to show off than this.

Plus, removing stances is two more free buttons for new abilities.

[AxlStream]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

[Burningskull]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

If they removed the DPS stance and kept the Tank stance then Fell Cleave would be outside of your Tank stance while Inner Beast is there when you have Tank Stance on.

[Arkdra]

In the case of Warrior you free no buttons as you would need to split Decimate and Fell Cleave from Steel Cyclone and Inner Beast.

Fell cleave gives the inner beast mitigation and decimate gives the bonus healing, problem solved.

Turning 100 ways for bad players to be bad into merely 99 ways.

It's not really a 100 ways. There's like, 5 common ways for tanks to be bad and removing one of those is a big deal.