Performance-based roll system

[Seraphor]

Something occured to me while running Alliance raids today.
Have the Alliance that deals the most cumulative damage rewarded with an additional treasure coffer, or they get an upgraded coffer with three peices of loot instead of two.

The DPS of a party is reliant on everyone doing well, you cant screw other people over, lack of healing, poor emnity control, or deaths, will reduce overall damage output, so everyone just has to play their jobs to their best.
It'd be a flat out three-way competition, a team endurance race of sorts.

There's still an element of luck, you can be paired up with poor performers, but it would give more incentive for everyone to try their best, without being so important that it leads to toxicity against poor performers, its only one or two extra peices of loot after all.

[Emstidor]

Something occured to me while running Alliance raids today.
Have the Alliance that deals the most cumulative damage rewarded with an additional treasure coffer, or they get an upgraded coffer with three peices of loot instead of two.

The DPS of a party is reliant on everyone doing well, you cant screw other people over, lack of healing, poor emnity control, or deaths, will reduce overall damage output, so everyone just has to play their jobs to their best.
It'd be a flat out three-way competition, a team endurance race of sorts.

There's still an element of luck, you can be paired up with poor performers, but it would give more incentive for everyone to try their best, without being so important that it leads to toxicity against poor performers, its only one or two extra peices of loot after all.

Like a lot of the ideas posted upthread, the intent is good but I fear that the reality would result in "That dps on our team who barely meets the ilvl requirement and is running this raid for gear upgrades is holding us back, let's kick him and roll the dice on getting a geared replacement."

[Kleeya]

Something occured to me while running Alliance raids today.
Have the Alliance that deals the most cumulative damage rewarded with an additional treasure coffer, or they get an upgraded coffer with three peices of loot instead of two.

The DPS of a party is reliant on everyone doing well, you cant screw other people over, lack of healing, poor emnity control, or deaths, will reduce overall damage output, so everyone just has to play their jobs to their best.
It'd be a flat out three-way competition, a team endurance race of sorts.

There's still an element of luck, you can be paired up with poor performers, but it would give more incentive for everyone to try their best, without being so important that it leads to toxicity against poor performers, its only one or two extra peices of loot after all.

As a red mage main, it would only incite me to never rez players of the other alliances, even at the risk of screwing up the whole raid. Don't rage at me if i continue to dps the boss over your corpse : you want competition ? You have it XD

There is already enough dps epeen contests in savage, please dont bring me that in casual content meant to be played in cooperation with other people, and not against them.

[Ilan]

As a red mage main, it would only incite me to never rez players of the other alliances, even at the risk of screwing up the whole raid. Don't rage at me if i continue to dps the boss over your corpse : you want competition ? You have it XD

There is already enough dps epeen contests in savage, please dont bring me that in casual content meant to be played in cooperation with other people, and not against them.

Sorry but i have to be the one that says it. The biggest part of the RDM's you'll get in DF won't raise anyway because they don't care or because they didn't read the tooltips.

[Mansion]

Sorry but i have to be the one that says it. The biggest part of the RDM's you'll get in DF won't raise anyway because they don't care or because they didn't read the tooltips.

I don't raise people when I know it's going to be a pain for my mana. Just because we can chain raise does not mean that we should. Two raises back to back is a huge amount of mana, even with Lucid dreaming. Plus considering manashifts to Bards / healers.

Just avoid to die.

[Kleeya]

Sorry but i have to be the one that says it. The biggest part of the RDM's you'll get in DF won't raise anyway because they don't care or because they didn't read the tooltips.

Even if that was true (it might just be you having no luck ending with bad/selfish rdms) that's not a reason to make that even worse by inciting people of thinking of their group dps only.

I did take that as an example, but we can imagine players with aoes markers going on purpose near other groups players, so that their heals gets busy healing them rather than doing more dps. Or for the same purpose tanks turning the boss towards other groups when a big cleave is coming. No tanks wanting to be the main defensive one because "my dps". A full roster group in 400+ stuff getting the bonus despite not needing such low level stuff, while the two others less geared groups who actually need more drops will in fact get less. Players with parsers leaving the raid when they see they will not get more drops. And so on. I am sure that there is tons of other points that will make 24 man raids way more toxic if you bring competition between players into them, instead of keeping them as as a common goal to reach together.

[Ilan]

It's also very difficult for controller players to target other alliances anyway. We target by scrolling through the party list.
If you're in another alliance, I'll never find your corpse in the sea of flailing weapons, spells and fireworks.

I don't play with a controller so i wouldn't know but from what SpiritMuse it is not impossible so i can't let this count as an excuse.

I don't raise people when I know it's going to be a pain for my mana. Just because we can chain raise does not mean that we should. Two raises back to back is a huge amount of mana, even with Lucid dreaming. Plus considering manashifts to Bards / healers.

Just avoid to die.

Dude come on don't exaggerate. 2 raises are no issue except you died before.
But yeah its a good idea to not die and the next thing that a healer will say to everyone in the party is: "nah i won't heal you i have to do dps myself, just avoid to take damage"

Even if that was true (it might just be you having no luck ending with bad/selfish rdms) that's not a reason to make that even worse by inciting people of thinking of their group dps only.

I did take that as an example, but we can imagine players with aoes markers going on purpose near other groups players, so that their heals gets busy healing them rather than doing more dps. Or for the same purpose tanks turning the boss towards other groups when a big cleave is coming. No tanks wanting to be the main defensive one because "my dps". A full roster group in 400+ stuff getting the bonus despite not needing such low level stuff, while the two others less geared groups who actually need more drops will in fact get less. Players with parsers leaving the raid when they see they will not get more drops. And so on. I am sure that there is tons of other points that will make 24 man raids way more toxic if you bring competition between players into them, instead of keeping them as as a common goal to reach together.

Uhm you'll discover RDM's like this frequently in 24 and 8 man DF content, that has nothing to do with my "bad experiences" because i'm very often also on RDM and i see that people won't get a raise from any RDM when i'm not able to raise.

I know you did take this just as an example, but its not the best. Stuff that you've just described already happen, not often but there is sometimes one of these players amongst the 23 other players. I also get what you want to say and i agree that people would become more egoistic if this system would be in the game, but it will not happen because SE doesn't want to chase a large group of customers away.

People already took their pitchforks out when we could only roll greed. Now imagine what would happen if a big part of the community wouldn't even have the chance to get loot because of this system.

[Mansion]

Dude come on don't exaggerate. 2 raises are no issue except you died before.
But yeah its a good idea to not die and the next thing that a healer will say to everyone in the party is: "nah i won't heal you i have to do dps myself, just avoid to take damage"

Well no, really. Two raises back to back is 7 200 MP. RDM have 14 400 MP. If we play full uptime, we mostly sit around 7 - 8 000 MP most of the time, with Lucid Dreaming used on cooldown.
A RDM can raise roughly once every 90 seconds, if Lucid Dreaming is used on CD. A little less if there is a Refresh Song.

Now the healer not healing is another problem. But it's everyone's job to avoid unnecessary healing too!

[Ilan]

Well no, really. Two raises back to back is 7 200 MP. RDM have 14 400 MP. If we play full uptime, we mostly sit around 7 - 8 000 MP most of the time, with Lucid Dreaming used on cooldown.
A RDM can raise roughly once every 90 seconds, if Lucid Dreaming is used on CD. A little less if there is a Refresh Song.

Now the healer not healing is another problem. But it's everyone's job to avoid unnecessary healing too!

Its funny that there are RDM who can raise and others have mana issues.

Of course it is everyones job to avoid dmg and to avoid dying, but it doesn't always work out the ideal way and you should know that.