Performance-based roll system

[CorbinDallas]

People with disabilities would be punished for this. Anyone who is partially blind, mentally challenged, and/or physically unable to play easily would be brutally punished.

Keep this kind of system in savage/extreme/ultimate if it is ever implemented.

Not to be disrespectful or anything, but that's on them. If someone can play a game at a respectable level using their feet then nobody has any excuse. You can't expect everything in life to be tailor made for a tiny minority of users, video games least of all.

There are also failsafes in place for these people in the form of tomestones and other token related gear that is 100% guaranteed regardless of effort or participation, so that's a moot point entirely.

[Seraphor]

Even if that was true (it might just be you having no luck ending with bad/selfish rdms) that's not a reason to make that even worse by inciting people of thinking of their group dps only.

I did take that as an example, but we can imagine players with aoes markers going on purpose near other groups players, so that their heals gets busy healing them rather than doing more dps. Or for the same purpose tanks turning the boss towards other groups when a big cleave is coming. No tanks wanting to be the main defensive one because "my dps". A full roster group in 400+ stuff getting the bonus despite not needing such low level stuff, while the two others less geared groups who actually need more drops will in fact get less. Players with parsers leaving the raid when they see they will not get more drops. And so on. I am sure that there is tons of other points that will make 24 man raids way more toxic if you bring competition between players into them, instead of keeping them as as a common goal to reach together.

I cant see people compromising the entire raid simply for the chance at one extra drop, when the risk of wiping would mean simply running the raid another time would probably be more beneficial.

[Miste]

Any ideas on how we can make rolling on loot somewhat performance-based? I'm mainly talking about the non-savage duty funder type stuff like dungeons, normal raids, trials, etc. It would be nice to reward people who perform with a +20 to whatever they would've rolled so that there's an incentive to do your best instead of letting people carry you. It's kind of annoying to see players die to easy mechanics 4 times, contribute nothing, and then win the loot with a 95 roll while the people who actually did the work lose out.

This idea won't work.

You are not thinking hard enough about all circumstances.

Other players can get you killed, lower your dps by making mistakes that you must correct, and lower healer performance due to too many mistakes they must correct. Tanks can die while using cooldowns and playing properly simply due to healer mistakes.

Say a mechanic happens which I do correctly, but the other players do not do it right and as a result I die. My performance goes down even though it wasnt my fault I died. There are plenty of ways to kill another player and ruin their performance while not dying yourself.

The system would need to be waaaay too precise to properly calculate all these possibilities.

[Reynhart]

There are plenty of ways to kill another player and ruin their performance while not dying yourself.

That's exactly why you would need a system that rewards the whole team for doing good and not reward each person. Worst case scenario, if you're personally rewarded for your DPS, it would be to your benefit to help other DPS die so that you'd have to take care of monsters more.

If the team as a whole is rewarded, you'll have no reason to backstab people.

[Liam_Harper]

If the team as a whole is rewarded, you'll have no reason to backstab people.

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

[CorbinDallas]

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

That is a problem why? We already remove weak links from party finder content, which is where the majority of this discussion is aimed at, and we have every right to.

[Reynhart]

But then you're no longer just aiming for a kill, you're aiming for a smooth, fast kill. The goalposts move. Now you have plenty of reason to remove the weak link from your group.

People already go for the fastest run available, nothing moves from that. However, if you have a reward for your tank taking less damage, you'll probably see more or them keeping their stance.

[Miste]

That's exactly why you would need a system that rewards the whole team for doing good and not reward each person. Worst case scenario, if you're personally rewarded for your DPS, it would be to your benefit to help other DPS die so that you'd have to take care of monsters more.

If the team as a whole is rewarded, you'll have no reason to backstab people.

Uh...but the OP's suggestion was to add a +20 to loot rolls if your performance is high.

If the entire group gets +20 on their rolls then what's the point? It cancels it out and negates any bonus at all at that point. I was replying specifically to OP's suggestion so...yeah, not sure why you replied to me with this? It has nothing to do with my reply to him about his idea.

Your idea is also faulty and not thinking hard enough about the entire picture. One person can play with very high performance while the other 7 barely scrape by....then that one person gets screwed due to other players ruining the group performance.

It isn't a good system to reward player or group bonuses based on single player performance OR group performance because no matter how well you personally play other players can ruin your bonuses by killing you, playing poorly, etc.

Either system has serious flaws and in my opinion will only create more grief, hate, and segregation between players than there already is.

People already go for the fastest run available, nothing moves from that. However, if you have a reward for your tank taking less damage, you'll probably see more or them keeping their stance.

Any system that would reward tanks for staying in tank stance would be incredibly daft. Tanks and healers are so strong that tank stance is almost entirely useless for most things beyond establishing initial enmity.

[Reynhart]

Uh...but the OP's suggestion was to add a +20 to loot rolls if your performance is high.

That's why I suggested a performance bonus chest system.

How about a performance based number of loot instead ?

You could add optionnal objectives to dungeons, that would simply increase the number of chests at the end, to encourage everyone to perform better.
- No death ? "Flawless victory bonus chest"
- Less than x number of damage taken ? "Life preservation bonus chest"
- x amount of total damage dealt ? "Brutal bonus chest"
- Every monster killed ? "Slayer bonus chest"
etc...

yeah, not sure why you replied to me with this? It has nothing to do with my reply to him about his idea.

I replied to you to flesh out your fear of consequences, not because I was disagreeing

It isn't a good system to reward player or group bonuses based on single player performance OR group performance because no matter how well you personally play other players can ruin your bonuses by killing you, playing poorly, etc.

At worst, you'd simply have the same situation as now, you wouldn't lose anything by having a system that support improvement with bonuses. It's like saying "first participation bonus is bad because I could end with no first timer". That's what they would be, "bonuses".

Any system that would reward tanks for staying in tank stance would be incredibly daft. Tanks and healers are so strong that tank stance is almost entirely useless for most things beyond establishing initial enmity.

Frankly, tanks play the same whatever stance they use, so it's not like playing would be less engaging. Right now, they don't use it because the only way to earn loot is to kill the enemy. If you had different objectives, it could change the meta a little.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Frankly, tanks play the same whatever stance they use, so it's not like playing would be less engaging. Right now, they don't use it because the only way to earn loot is to kill the enemy. If you had different objectives, it could change the meta a little.

Actually, it would because half the engagement comes from optimization. If I'm arbitrarily forced to sit in tank stance, I'm basically losing damage for no discernible reason. Ironically, this makes it so the healers have even less to heal when normal mode is already mostly a joke. Put simply, it wouldn't change a thing. People such as myself wouldn't even look at normal mode for longer than we have to or wouldn't care regardless. Forcing tanks into their stance in a manner such as this screams laziness. It means the devs have no idea how to actually make tank stance engaging or fun but they'll force it on you anyway.