Performance-based roll system

[DPZ2]

At least, people who didn't participate at all, like being outside the boss arena the entire fight, should not be able to get loot from this boss.

Do they get loot now?

It's bad enough that this used to happen regularly when high-level players would start a boss battle in the Praetorium while all the new people were still trying to get through the cut-scenes (and the annoyance of skipping cut-scenes) only to end up on the wrong side of that purple line.

[Lunalepsy]

So it has finally turned into a 9-5 grind. Do we get a performance sheet too? : 3

[Shurrikhan]

Any ideas on how we can make rolling on loot somewhat performance-based? I'm mainly talking about the non-savage duty funder type stuff like dungeons, normal raids, trials, etc. It would be nice to reward people who perform with a +20 to whatever they would've rolled so that there's an incentive to do your best instead of letting people carry you. It's kind of annoying to see players die to easy mechanics 4 times, contribute nothing, and then win the loot with a 95 roll while the people who actually did the work lose out.

I don't think it'd work very well with anything that doesn't have granular rewards, especially without an accurate by-ilvl benchmark comparator.

Consider: you're trying to get actual gear from the dungeon. A Savage raider is also attending, looking for some glamour pieces. Having 50% more ilvl beyond the base for a level 70 than you do, he also does some 40% more throughput. You both roll what would have been 50s. He gets the loot. That wouldn't feel great.

And then there are the less just but still obvious issues. The truly bad players aren't going to be encouraged not to slack off by this. Unless they are almost literally prevented from getting loot -- at which point they throw a (in a significant way, deserved) fit here and/or unsubscribe -- they'll just do more runs, likely chalking it up to RNG as always. So, we just get to experience that poor play for more runs, while getting good players for fewer runs, accentuating the skill pyramid.

Should there be other ways to better encourage our players towards competence and some modicum of effort? Certainly. This just isn't one of the viable ways.

If anything, we probably just ought to see some silent normalization via bad luck protection, better player training and in-game support therefor, a more reasonable and continuous difficulty curve, and the like.

[Seraphor]

For the regular 8 man and the 24 man raids, I think a system where you get a bonus to your roll based on how many times you've done it that week would work.

Would that mean that at the end of the week, right before reset, everyones rolling 95+ every time and anyone who hasnt been grinding it all week doesnt have a chance?

[CaptainLagbeard]

Would that mean that at the end of the week, right before reset, everyones rolling 95+ every time and anyone who hasnt been grinding it all week doesnt have a chance?

Well, the idea is more that people don't grind it all week, because they will eventually get their loot. It's more an idea to limit the grind.

[Seraphor]

Well, the idea is more that people don't grind it all week, because they will eventually get their loot. It's more an idea to limit the grind.

But if everyone is playing it multiple times to get better roll chances, then you're likely to encounter other players who have also run it multiple times and have also got the roll bonus, which results in you not actually having any advantage against them.

If you haven't run it multiple times this week already, and you're paired with people who have, which would be likely, then you'll have less chance to roll, and depending on how great a bonus it is or how much it stacks, you could be guaranteed to not be successful on your first or first few runs.
You will need to run it multiple times to 'build up' your roll bonus, before you even have a shot at winning your loot, before taking into account that you need that loot to drop in the first place.

Basically you will need to grind it out, in order to get back to square one. So this will only enforce more grinding.


The only viable solution I can see, is that if the party consists of enough people who have run it multiple times, then the raid actually drops more loot.

[CaptainLagbeard]

But if everyone is playing it multiple times to get better roll chances, then you're likely to encounter other players who have also run it multiple times and have also got the roll bonus, which results in you not actually having any advantage against them.

If you haven't run it multiple times this week already, and you're paired with people who have, which would be likely, then you'll have less chance to roll, and depending on how great a bonus it is or how much it stacks, you could be guaranteed to not be successful on your first or first few runs.
You will need to run it multiple times to 'build up' your roll bonus, before you even have a shot at winning your loot, before taking into account that you need that loot to drop in the first place.

Basically you will need to grind it out, in order to get back to square one. So this will only enforce more grinding.

I do suppose it would very much leave people who don't start doing the raids on tuesday at a disadvantage, it is pretty much impossible to create a perfect system for the loot, the RNG will leave people running the raids way more than they should but other non-RNG systems either wouldn't work with the duty finder or could backfire.

The only viable solution I can see, is that if the party consists of enough people who have run it multiple times, then the raid actually drops more loot.

More loot would also very much help with getting weekly runs on the raids, at least the 8 man ones.

[Shurrikhan]

The only viable solution I can see, is that if the party consists of enough people who have run it multiple times, then the raid actually drops more loot.

This. More or less. At minimum, it will take half as many runs as there are players -- total playerbase, not just one party -- who wish to get an item, not counting remainders unable to form a party. At most, it will take the same number of runs as there are players -- again, total playerbase.

You increase the loot, you decrease the required ratio of runs.

Now, you can do this in a couple ways. It can be a literal increase (chance at a bonus chest), or you can include some sort of token currency per run such that one is able to generate further loot (i.e. cash the tokens for a reward of their choosing).

[Ilan]

Any ideas on how we can make rolling on loot somewhat performance-based? I'm mainly talking about the non-savage duty funder type stuff like dungeons, normal raids, trials, etc. It would be nice to reward people who perform with a +20 to whatever they would've rolled so that there's an incentive to do your best instead of letting people carry you. It's kind of annoying to see players die to easy mechanics 4 times, contribute nothing, and then win the loot with a 95 roll while the people who actually did the work lose out.

That won't happen because everyone is paying money to play the game and SE doesn't want a huge shitstorm or people quitting aka loosing money over something like that.

[Alleo]

Honestly OP even though I kinda agree with the idea behind it (because there is nothing more frustrating of having someone who was dead the whole run get nearly everything of the loot at the end) I doubt that this can be implemented in a way to be fair. How will the system judge if you have done good or not? It would need at least three different ways (for Tanks, healers and DDs) and then what would be the right way? Increase the chance if you are just doing your job by simply tanking or healing? Or would they need to DPS too? What happens if a healer or tank let people die on purpose to let it look like they are not carrying their worth? Or just simply a bad healer that lets the others die from unavoidable damage.