So people are defending the msq dc exploit

[Zephera]

yes it is a exploit, the dungeon was programmed so anyone in those instances could no skip the cut-scene. If you are bypassing that option by means of a exploit it can and will get your account banned, or suspended. It is against the ToS.

I've yet to actually hear of anyone getting banned for this "exploit" and not for actually mouthing off at someone and getting banned for harassment instead.

Also, loving all this "yeah, ban everyone who dares to dc even if it's an accident due to power or internet going out" stuff. Totally reasonable.

[LalaRu]

...Whats worse is when players start harassing other players for not using the skip exploit.

The day it wil happen to me, I'll report that and we will see who can login next week.

[ChaseNetwork]

The day it wil happen to me, I'll report that and we will see who can login next week.

My guess is probably both of you will be able to log in just fine. If kicking teammates for not meeting your group's gear requirements in the Duty Finder is acceptable under the excuse by mods of (differing playstyles), then kicking you cause you're not skipping the cutscenes (you aren't meeting with the group's playstyle), is similarly going to be ignored by mods.

[Kuroka]

Also, loving all this "yeah, ban everyone who dares to dc even if it's an accident due to power or internet going out" stuff. Totally reasonable.

Yeah its totally random, 5x in row, just right after a CS started, but I rly randomly ran ahead and pulled the boss, i didnt expect that to work, said 5x in row.... lol

[Zephera]

Yeah its totally random, 5x in row, just right after a CS started, but I rly randomly ran ahead and pulled the boss, i didnt expect that to work, said 5x in row.... lol

Yeah, I don't think you can prove it to the standards the GMs have to. They don't ban people using bots for gathering, so what makes you think they'll ban for this?

EDIT: Nevermind the bit I tried to edit in quickly, seems we both agree on that point. :P

[Kuroka]

Yeah i know that though, thats why some ppl bot since ages...

[Iscah]

That is entirely wrong. You do not exploit anything. Why?!

1) The cutscene being skipped is as designed.
2) The Alt + F4 is Windows function, not game function. The game does not stop it (and it shouldn't, it's emergency shutdown necessary to protect computer for harmful effects of bugs etc, among others, or when someone really needs to leave "this instant").
3) Neither code affects each other directly. It is a command that tells Windows to stop executing a program.

...

This is not a flaw in the design of the program. It does not use the program at all. For it to be Final Fantasy XIV exploit, it needs to affect how the FFXIV program is run. It does not. [...]

If you want to be nitpicky you can call it a Windows exploit. Using the Windows function to avoid something in another program is not it's intended functionality. But sorry, Square Enix does not own Windows. They cannot do anything based on account of you exploiting Windows. And heck, you could do it by turning off your router/modem. They don't own your router/modem either. Neither your cables that you can disconnect...and so on and so forth.

"If you want to be nitpicky", you can insist that the overall process is not an exploit because it does not directly rely on FFXIV's programming to work.

I would debate that part of it - it seems to rely on the nature of how the game handles cutscene playback - but even if it is "only" a Windows exploit and not a FFXIV exploit, it is still using an exploit of one kind or another to get around the forced cutscenes.


The clear design intent (in the current build of the dungeon) is that everyone is locked in place until a cutscene ends, and progresses through the dungeon together. (We know that is their intent because they have said so - that the change has been implemented to ensure that new players can experience the dungeon as intended, without being rushed or left behind.)

The flaw is that they can't directly lock players in place for this, and instead implement it by locking them into the "viewing cutscene" status. When the game is running normally, there is no way around this status.

A second flaw is that the game does not (and possibly cannot) reapply the "viewing cutscene" status to a player logging back in after a disconnect.

The vulnerability which they cannot program against because (as you said) it is above and beyond their software, is that people can do something they would not do in the course of normal gameplay: deliberately force-quit the game and then log straight back into it.

Put these things together, and you can deliberately quit and log back in to be free to move when the game intended for you to be still locked in the cutscene.

That is an exploit. It takes advantage of how the different elements of the system interact, to do something outside of what the programmers intended.

And you know what?! One of those systems [for dealing with Alt+F4] is NOT cutscene skipping, normally. Did you know?! If you get disconnected in the middle of a cutscene after talking to an NPC, your talking to the NPC is NOT registered. You can talk with him again and get the cutscene to run again.

So developers specifically chose cutscenes in dungeons to not re-trigger after a disconnection. Otherwise the unseen cutscene would auto-trigger on loading in into the instance.

This is guesswork, but I think it's programmed differently between single-player content and multiplayer content.


In single-player content, it works as you described. A cutscene is triggered by interacting with an NPC or objective, and is only marked off as 'done' when you (the only person involved) have reached the end of it, or opted to skip it.


In multiplayer content, I think it has to work differently to accomodate the fact that there are four/eight people having the same experience together, and possibly the nature of the instanced content.

As I see it:

1. A cutscene is triggered when one party member reaches a flagged point. Everyone watches the cutscene simultaneously.

2. At this point I believe the flag is removed and/or the cutscene is considered 'played', preventing it from playing again when the next person reaches the flagged location.

3. Disconnecting and returning to the instance does not reset the flag. The cutscene has been played, it's done, and it will not trigger again during this instance.

As much as they want everyone to be able to watch the cutscenes, it's probably necessary to handle "unintended disconnects" this way - even more so after implementing the forced scenes. Imagine if someone with genuine connection issues kept getting thrown out of the game, logging back in, and having to watch the same cutscene three-quarters of the way through before their connection broke again? They'd be stuck there for ages.


Also worth mentioning, I had the misfortune to start my original run of Praetorium just as the system came under a DDoS attack. It was disconnection hell, and a curious side effect of this? If I was disconnected when a cutscene was triggered, not only did I miss seeing it, but the system didn't even recognise that I had unlocked it. The Unending Journey cutscene viewer only contained the scenes I'd been present for, and a second run through the dungeon doubled the number of cutscenes listed for it.

What the players are doing is in the gray area. It is "legal", but "inappropriate". In law it is something that you cannot be penalized for when you do it, but that'd lead to a new legislature that'd make your future attempts illegal.

Without actually checking the ToS, I would expect it says you cannot exploit flaws in the game programming to gain an advantage, or affect another player's experience.

Argue the semantics all you like, but I am fairly sure this is exploiting a flaw in the game programming - specifically in the method used to lock player movement and prevent some from moving ahead of the group - that is only exposed in conjunction with a Windows function that the programmers cannot prevent you from using.


---

I should add that I found a game exploit myself, once. Just a mobile game that unlocked more characters and items according to your running total of high scores. It happened completely by accident - one time I was having trouble submitting my score to the leaderboard, it kept getting knocked back, and I eventually realised that my internet had dropped out.

When I turned it back on and submitted my score, I got credited for every attempted submission of that score. Hundreds of points and gems and whatever it was the game ran on. So I did it again deliberately a few times. I got all the characters and skills unlocked in a couple of days instead of weeks or months of play.

In this case, it affected nobody except myself (and the company throwing out cheap mobile games intended to suck you into paying for extra credits). But it was definitely an exploit. The fact that I found it by accident doesn't change that.

[KaivaC]

You're deliberatly taking what they are saying out of context.
They are trying to word what the players are doing without out and right saying thosoe players are cheating.And they are cheating.There's nothing to debate there about it.
Wheter devs designed something poorly is irrlevant.it doesnt give players an excuse to cheat.
And thats what has summed up a lot of this thread.
Dev's made it bad so it's their fault for palyers cheating.
Well its not.It's never been ok in any games to cheat and this new thing over the last few years where players try to throw the blame elsewhere for them playing dirty needs to some.
It's obvious case of millenial syndrom where younger gamers are so used to having everything their way in life and never been told off or punished for doing wrong that it because second nature to throw the blame off to someone else.

The thread is not about if the devs did a bad job with the content.The thread is about the fact that players are cheating and being let get away with it and being supported by some of the community which wil just encourage the abuse of more bugs found in the future.
And aside from that they are purposly destroying the experience for any new players to achieve this.

Since I know you've been here since...still waiting for an answer. I'll be optimistic and assume that you might have missed it, so I'll post it up again, just for you. Because I'm nice like that.

Maybe how about you stop putting words in what I write. I have not once defended exploiting. But you seem to be hellbent on pushing this narrative of 'if you don't stand against it, you are for it'. That's not the case here at all. Each time I've talking about exploiting, I have not defended the practice, nor the toxicity that comes along with it. In fact, several times throughout this thread, I have pointed out WHY people are exploiting, and once again, I will say it: it's because those people who have an issue with the unskippable cutscenes simply do not want to watch them for the umpeenth time. Players have a habit of going with the most efficient way of doing things - that's why this exploit exists, and that is why I keep saying that this is happening.

Seriously.

What same posters defending what bad habits and toxicity? Please, educate me. I would love to know what group of people are you identifying as having these so-called bad habits. Please, do share. I'll wait.

[ChaseNetwork]

This conversation reminds me of the discussions of "Cheesing" encounters in Destiny.
Cheaters ultimately just want to cheat, and if they have enough pride, will say anything they can think of to try and justify it.
No point arguing with them. If they do something you identify as a cheat, report them and move on.

[KaivaC]

This conversation reminds me of the discussions of "Cheesing" encounters in Destiny.
Cheaters ultimately just want to cheat, and if they have enough pride, will say anything they can think of to try and justify it.
No point arguing with them. If they do something you identify as a cheat, report them and move on.

Define cheating in this context. Aside from not having to deal with cutscenes, define what advantages that skipping cutscenes will give you. Because last I checked, you still have to fight through bosses and mobs. Can't cheese those. The more ppl locked in cutscenes, the harder it would be to ...well, you know, "cheat".

So let's just call it exactly what it is: it is an exploit, not a cheat. They intertwine from time to time, but they are not the same thing in this case.