Gating interesting content behind artificial side leveling

[Iscah]

He's just trying to get some attention. Either that, or troll, or drunk, or everything together. Check the Mogstation thread and you'll see.

Only if you checked it yesterday. The mods deleted that entire side conversation. But there are enough examples across the rest of the board.



Again - Hercub, if you're not deliberately trolling, and you want engage with the community, then try not to post when you're in whatever state makes you write posts like that. You've written perfectly normal things before, and now you're increasingly doing these rambling stream-of-consciousness posts instead.

And if you want to make remarks like "we know who you are"... in the same way, the mods know who you are, and they've chosen to delete some of your posts. So keep that in mind if you're going to keep posting in the way you have been lately. I don't know what the exact rules are, but I understand that once you've had a certain number of warnings you are permanently, irreversibly banned from the forum.

[Iscah]

My issue with "gating things behind Eureka" isn't about the final dungeon (which presumably continues on with the gameplay format, for those who enjoy it) or even the gear, but having part of the game's story locked behind it.

If it was self-contained, that might be different, but the fate of the Isle of Val was a big deal in post-ARR MSQ. It was a mystery, the Ascians seemed to be involved, and it all sounded like it was going to be important in future.

And instead, the only way to finally get the answer (or at least to see it for yourself within the game) is locked behind this incredibly time-intensive side content.

[Seraphor]

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.
.

"Boring" is subjective, some people really enjoy it.
The tombstone grind to prog savage can also be "boring".

[BillyKaplan]

"Boring" is subjective, some people really enjoy it.

then it doesn't matter if they get a shiny carrot at the end or not, does it?

The tombstone grind to prog savage can also be "boring".

There are various ways to get geared for Savage, including just buying crafted gear. You can't get around Eureka.

[Stanelis]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tion_on_pyros/

"第4弾ではパブリックダンジョン的なものもある
In the 4th installment there'll be something akin to a public dungeon"

This was from an interview nearly 3 months ago; the idea of a public dungeon has been around since well before Pyros launched, iirc. Arguments can be made as to how set in stone it was, but the idea and developer interest was surely there to give hints at expecting such an idea.

Yes but what is being presented here is totally different. It's a public dungeon, inside Eureka. Not the whole hydros, just one part of it. One of the main content flaw of Eureka is the fact that the content can be zerged down, which is adressed by this design, that is very FFXI like. Then why do we have this design only in the last installment of Eureka after 3 very boring iteration of said content, that are nothing like it ?

then it doesn't matter if they get a shiny carrot at the end or not, does it?

Last time I checked we were customers paying to take part in content. I don't really get this "carrot" mentality.

.
"Boring" is subjective, some people really enjoy it.

I'm in a FC of FFXI veteran who completed all endgame content up to TOAU when it was relevant (absolute virtue aside, obviously), myself included. And absolutely no one in this crowd find Eureka to be well designed or interesting. Then please explain to me who anemos, pagos and hydros were intended to because I'm very interested in the reply. From our perspective it s just old fate farming like in 2.X in areas slightly harder to navigate with some FFXI "fan service".

[Nora_of_Mira]

I don't think you really understand my point.

this is correct for me. I'm not really sure what your point is, unless I just assume this "public dungeon" is actually interesting content that people are going to miss out on. because if that's the case, I certainly don't care. There is tons of content in this game I knowingly miss out on because I don't craft/gather/care about ponies/make gil/run maps/do deliveries/own a house/RP(?) but missing out doesn't bother me in the slightest because I'm willingly not participating in them.


but can we really say we know exactly what we're going to get? Will it actually be interesting? And if it flops, will you still care that its gated?

[Stanelis]

this is correct for me. I'm not really sure what your point is, unless I just assume this "public dungeon" is actually interesting content that people are going to miss out on. because if that's the case, I certainly don't care. There is tons of content in this game I knowingly miss out on because I don't craft/gather/care about ponies/make gil/run maps/do deliveries/own a house/RP(?) but missing out doesn't bother me in the slightest because I'm willingly not participating in them.


but can we really say we know exactly what we're going to get? Will it actually be interesting? And if it flops, will you still care that its gated?

What I'm talking about isn't whether if the public dungeon is well designed or not (even though it is what people who played older MMORPG have been asking in FFXIV since 1.0), as only time will tell, but rather the design of the leveling system of eureka that makes no sense no matter you look at it and how this content is tied to FFXIV as a whole (as FFXIV is a game where already ilvl and vanilla leveling exist).

And even if it flops I ll still care if it is gated, because if I put a few tenth of hours leveling in pagos and pyros mostly spent waiting for fates, I'll be pretty damn pissed off if I did it to access half designed content.

[Nora_of_Mira]

What I'm talking about isn't whether if the public dungeon is well designed or not (even though it is what people who played older MMORPG have been asking in FFXIV since 1.0), as only time will tell, but rather the design of the leveling system of eureka that makes no sense no matter you look at it and how this content is tied to FFXIV as a whole (as FFXIV is a game where already ilvl and vanilla leveling exist).

And even if it flops I ll still care if it is gated, because if I put a few tenth of hours leveling in pagos and pyros mostly spent waiting for fates, I'll be pretty damn pissed off if I did it to access half designed content.

as for why, this answers the question, imo:

http://www.siliconera.com/2017/11/10...s-relic-armor/

We have designed the game in a way that entices players to strive for high item level weapons or equipment, or enjoy the aspect of leveling up with our content updates. Since there is a level cap in the game, coupled with the fact that we increase the item level on equipment with our updates, it really is hard to imagine content existing that can played for an extended period of time.

I remember another interview where he said they wanted to create the feeling of leveling again to satisfy players that wanted to level again. the only way to create an actual long lasting piece of content, according to Yoshi P, is to give it an independent leveling system.

[Stanelis]

I remember another interview where he said they wanted to create the feeling of leveling again to satisfy players that wanted to level again. the only way to create an actual long lasting piece of content, according to Yoshi P, is to give it an independent leveling system.

Except leveling isn't content, you level by doing content. Furthermore, the issue isn't necessarily that additional leveling is added to the game, the issue here is both in the uselessness of it (it doesn't bring anything new, you could get magia board or pyros abilities without elemental levels), the execution (20 to 15 level spreads in such small areas only bring problems as it leads to extreme segregation of players that isn't really working because people go to high level fates anyway no matter their levels) and the content that allows you to level (which isn't any different from the core of the game).

Also, the fact that this system needs to be separate from the core of the game can be challenged, as it is well known pagos pyros and anemos gameplay is akin to the old fate leveling of 2.X.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Except leveling isn't content, you level by doing content. Furthermore, the issue isn't necessarily that additional leveling is added to the game, the issue here is both in the uselessness of it, the execution, and the content that allows you to level.

if you're arguing Eureka isn't content, idk what to tell you. If we want to continue to break it down piece by piece, Yes, the leveling system is just a time gate to prolong the content and is "useless". But so is any leveling system in any game, if im forced to think of it that way.

to me, your question feels like its poking at the very fundamentals of this game's creation/existence. "why does FFxiv or Eureka exist?". to me that's the same as "why does Savage/Ultimate exist, or lalafells".

I am not smart enough to answer these questions.