Gating interesting content behind artificial side leveling

[BillyKaplan]

In this very interview he says the public dungeon is not "casual" content, and casual players should avoid it.

There's casual in the sense of what content they run (not savage and extreme) and there's casual in the sense of how much time they have to invest in the game. It sounds like the content is not for casual difficulty-wise, but is gated behind content that is not for casual time-wise. So the two axes are not really related, and this is yet another way for them to force people into Eureka, because the one bit of content that's worth doing out of this mess is at the very end of a long haul that people otherwise wouldn't be touching with a stick.
This really isn't comparable to "clear Savage before running Ultimate" because if you're not the crowd that runs Savage, you have no business in Ultimate in the first place. This isn't the case and Yoshi himself set Eureka and the dungeon apart in that last quote Nora brought

[Haxaan]

There's casual in the sense of what content they run (not savage and extreme) and there's casual in the sense of how much time they have to invest in the game. It sounds like the content is not for casual difficulty-wise, but is gated behind content that is not for casual time-wise. So the two axes are not really related, and this is yet another way for them to force people into Eureka, because the one bit of content that's worth doing out of this mess is at the very end of a long haul that people otherwise wouldn't be touching with a stick.
This really isn't comparable to "clear Savage before running Ultimate" because if you're not the crowd that runs Savage, you have no business in Ultimate in the first place. This isn't the case and Yoshi himself set Eureka and the dungeon apart in that last quote Nora brought

You could use your logic for the other side as well. If you're not the crowd that runs Eureka, then you have no business doing the Dungeon that is tied to it in the first place.

[Kurando]

It sounds similar to the threads of when players were complaining that the ultimate raids should be more easily accessible (like without doing savage). To be fair, it's good to have this dungeon to reward the players who have put up with Eureka all the way through, kinda hope it has a cool reward though to make it worth it.

[Dreggit]

My only hope is that the castle isn't something akin to Haukke Manor in it's room layout.

I am hopeful that the castle has a need to explore it to achieve whatever it is we are going to do in there. I love me some big gruelling dungeons/castles.

[Seraphor]

There's casual in the sense of what content they run (not savage and extreme) and there's casual in the sense of how much time they have to invest in the game. It sounds like the content is not for casual difficulty-wise, but is gated behind content that is not for casual time-wise. So the two axes are not really related, and this is yet another way for them to force people into Eureka, because the one bit of content that's worth doing out of this mess is at the very end of a long haul that people otherwise wouldn't be touching with a stick.
This really isn't comparable to "clear Savage before running Ultimate" because if you're not the crowd that runs Savage, you have no business in Ultimate in the first place. This isn't the case and Yoshi himself set Eureka and the dungeon apart in that last quote Nora brought

So what you're really saying, is that those who want a grind, the non-casual-time-wise, who Eureka is intended for, shouldn't get anything interesting at the end of their grind, because the casual-time-wise will get jealous?

[Mholito]

The public dungeon was mentioned as early as when we first learned about the Logos system. In fact, nearly every time the Logos system has been brought up in interviews and liveletters, it's been mentioned that you should familliarize yourself with it because it will be very important for the upcomming "Public Dungeon" in the fourth Eureka zone. This was before we even knew the name of Pyros.

[Dyvid]

Hello,

I'm making this topic as per to discuss the last interview posted on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

In this interview, we learn that a specific dungeon will be accessible inside hydros with special conditions. My guess is that it is content tied to the ozma like mobs and absolute virtue shown in the latest trailer.

It sounds like interesting content and I'm not arguing against this. However, I'd like to ask, why content like this has to be gated behind the "side game" elemental leveling from both anemos, pagos and pyros when we already have regular levels and the item level system ?

Because that is what the content is designed to be?

[BillyKaplan]

shouldn't get anything interesting at the end of their grind

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.

You could use your logic for the other side as well. If you're not the crowd that runs Eureka, then you have no business doing the Dungeon that is tied to it in the first place.

Reread my post because I said the exact opposite. Savage and Ultimate are both on the same "casual" axis - the content difficulty one. Yoshi himself said that people who completed Eureka don't have to run that Dungeon because it's "too stressful". It's content not intended for that crowd in the first place. So locking it behind Eureka is obviously meant not for the people already running Eureka, but the people who don't, and want more engaging, interesting content. This is even more an obvious "please run Eureka" than locking the relic itself behind Eureka was - and that was pretty obvious.

[Haxaan]

You basically admitted Eureka is boring. So I don't see why people should run it as much as they do because it encourages the devs to make more boring, uninspired content.



Reread my post because I said the exact opposite. Savage and Ultimate are both on the same "casual" axis - the content difficulty one. Yoshi himself said that people who completed Eureka don't have to run that Dungeon because it's "too stressful". It's content not intended for that crowd in the first place. So locking it behind Eureka is obviously meant not for the people already running Eureka, but the people who don't, and want more engaging, interesting content. This is even more an obvious "please run Eureka" than locking the relic itself behind Eureka was - and that was pretty obvious.

I know you said the opposite, hence why I said your logic could be used to defend the other side. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. You are to blinded by your hate for Eureka to see it. I think you are reading Yoshi's words incorrectly as well. He said people who finish Eureka do not have to run the dungeon, as you do not need to clear it to progress the story. The Dungeon is supposed to be an extra present for people who have stuck with Eureka this whole time and would like some challenging content. Think of it like PoTD. Once you clear lvl 50 the story is over, but if you'd like to continue going for a more challenging experience you may. I feel like a lot of people are complaining because they chose to not do content and now they feel like they have to because there is a goody they don't get to have without working for it. Same with the Relic. We ALL knew the relic was going to be tied to Eureka when Eureka was very first announced. No one seemed to care about it at the time because the hardcore people who always get their relic were going to do the content regardless of what it was. There are plenty of people who actually like Eureka, myself included, so I am excited to be able to try my hand at the Dungeon, even if it sucks. There are plenty of things to do in this game, not all content is made for everyone. And to use your own logic, there are two types of Casual, content and time. Just because Savage and Ultimate is content, Relic and Eureka are time. If you don't want to put in the time, then I'm sorry, you don't get to do the Dungeon.

[BillyKaplan]

block of text

Please space your text so people can have an easier time replying to you, thanks.

I know you said the opposite, hence why I said your logic could be used to defend the other side. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't true. You are to blinded by your hate for Eureka to see it.

That in and of itself is something I can throw back at you, you realize that, yes? Be it because you like it and don't want people to hate it, or because having spent so much time into it, you feel obligated to defend it. No one here is objective so pointing out someone isn't isn't really tilting the balance of the debate either way. At best it's kind of pointless, at worst it's an ad hominem. And just because someone hates Eureka doesn't mean their reasons for it are weak or illogical - or that the hate came first, mind.

Think of it like PoTD.

But it's not. The time sink required for PotD and Eureka is incomperable. The amount of time it take you to clear Eureka the once, even with some nerfs, is comparable maybe to how long it takes you to get down to the deepest floor in PotD. And it's still a gradual progression in difficulty. It's not like what Yoshi said, where it's a raid at the end of what is difficulty wise (to set apart from time-sink wise) possibly the single most casual content in the game. It's like clearing HM -> Extreme/Savage -> Ultimate. More of the same just harder. From what Yoshi said, Eureka is not even on the same content axes as the dungeon. So no, it's nothing like PotD.

We ALL knew the relic was going to be tied to Eureka when Eureka was very first announced. No one seemed to care about it at the time

Because they kept saying it'd be nothing like Diadem. But it's arguably worse.

There are plenty of things to do in this game, not all content is made for everyone.

Eureka was one of the expansion's selling points. They can try and backpedal all they want by saying it wasn't meant for everyone, but at this point it just sounds like excuses because of how badly it failed. Eureka took development time away from other content. It's the only type of content we have to throw ourselves at. If it's not meant for everyone, by all means, release content aimed at other demographics and not just Eureka. But they're not doing it because Eureka was, in fact, aimed at the wider demographic, and they don't have the time and resources to give viable alternatives. A case can be made as to why despite saying how difficult it is to release a new job outside of an expansion release, they're releasing BLU at 4.5 - because it was stable enough and it gives people something to do that isn't Eureka.

If you don't want to put in the time, then I'm sorry, you don't get to do the Dungeon.

but that's what I'm saying - you shouldn't have to go through one content type to get to the other, that's the fallacy here. And in fact has always been the trade off - either you complete difficult content, or you invest a lot of time in something not as difficult. But now they're tying one to the other, breaking that mold. and it was a mold that made sense, is the problem.