Gating interesting content behind artificial side leveling

[Stanelis]

Hello,

I'm making this topic as per to discuss the last interview posted on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shida_summary/

In this interview, we learn that a specific dungeon will be accessible inside hydros with special conditions. My guess is that it is content tied to the ozma like mobs and absolute virtue shown in the latest trailer.

It sounds like interesting content and I'm not arguing against this. However, I'd like to ask, why content like this has to be gated behind the "side game" elemental leveling from both anemos, pagos and pyros when we already have regular levels and the item level system ?

[Nora_of_Mira]

So the people doing the content have something to do from 4.5x to 5.0.

Yoshida: Yes, we organized "the public dungeon" as end content for those who finished the whole story and this will be really hard, so i don't want players to force themselves to do it...although i know players will end up trying to reach for it.

and

Yoshida: Yes, you will need to gain the "right" again before you try again. It's clearly not somewhere casual players would want to go. I'm sure there are players who are fine with taking time to take it down and slowly progressing, but __it's a raid and you have a high chance of receiving a death penalty. Which makes players really anxious, so i really advise players not to force themselves to do it.

and

Yoshida: Hai. The public dungeon i spoke about isn't really a part of Hydatos if you ask me. Hydatos concludes just like Pyros and Anemos. The "public dungeon" is for those who have done everything else in Eureka and have nothing else to do. The weapon upgrades and the story can be done without touching the public dungeon, so please don't worry. You can casually enjoy Hydatos like the other Eureka areas.

[Stanelis]

So the people doing the content have something to do from 4.5x to 5.0.

It doesn't explain the need for an alternative artificial leveling system.

[Transient_Shadow]

It doesn't explain the need for an alternative artificial leveling system.

You're a few months late to the party in all honesty. Why are you suddenly interested in Eureka now that 'dungeon' has been slapped onto it? I enjoy the story for Eureka but even I can admit that it's implementation has been a right mess from the get go. It having a public dungeon doesn't suddenly make it 'interesting'

In fact I don't think you understand what a public dungeon actually is. It's literally what Eureka has been this entire time. An instanced area that anyone can come and go into. Having played ESO which has loads of public dungeons I can say that their not exactly something to cry home about.

If you want to experience the dungeon then just buck up and do Eureka. Don't complain on the forums.

[Stanelis]

You're a few months late to the party in all honesty. Why are you suddenly interested in Eureka now that 'dungeon' has been slapped onto it? I enjoy the story for Eureka but even I can admit that it's implementation has been a right mess from the get go. It having a public dungeon doesn't suddenly make it 'interesting'

I did anemos, it was terrible. Pagos was worst, I didn't find the motivation to keep grinding there.

The hydros public dungeon wasn't announced back then, if SE had told me that they ll implement this sort of stuff, maybe I'd have stuck to it. I can't find the motivation to grind for a shiny weapon but I can find some to unlock decent content.

Essentially what you're saying is that you want the content to be more easily accessible for people who didn't spend time leveling in eureka for one reason or another. Whereas Yoshida has stated on multiple occasions that Eureka was designed to be content for old school MMO players who enjoy long grinds and grueling endgame content. In this very interview he says the public dungeon is not "casual" content, and casual players should avoid it.

No I just want something that makes sense, the current elemental level system doesn't (the magia board or pyros abilities system are good ideas but the elemental level side of things really isn't working when there is such a spread in level in singles areas). But I won't delve into the details as it is a topic beaten to death. The issue isn't that there is grind or whatever but that the current eureka grind makes no sense. Furthermore, I see it as a problem that what you farm outside eureka don't really translate into eureka with the ilvl sync : if there was a reason to go fish in omega savage for gear to be used in interesting eureka content (like that public dungeon, as it really sounds interesting), maybe some people would find the motivation to go there and farm for gear.

So to answer your question, why is there an alternate leveling system ? Because it was designed that way to be a long grind on purpose. The public dungeon is content for the type of people who enjoy these kinds of grinds. If you don't like it, it just means you're not one of the people this content was intended for and you don't have to do it.

I don't think you really understand my point, the issue here isn't the grind (that isn't even long, just boring, tedious and ridiculous in its implementation, I don't know about hydros but pagos is like 90 % waiting, 5 % killing glorified trashs mobs you already fought and 5 % fighting fate NMs that range from not really interesting to mildly entertaining). Also, there are no correlation between liking public dungeons and alternative leveling system or grinds.

Also as someone who understand the joke of finding 2 minautors in a cavern after a slide in a snowy area I m pretty sure I m the people targeted with eureka (it's a direct reference to a BCNM in uleguerand range in FFXI).

[Haxaan]

I did anemos, it was terrible. Pagos was worst, I didn't find the motivation to keep grinding there.

The hydros public dungeon wasn't announced back then, if SE had told me that they ll implement this sort of stuff, maybe I'd have stuck to it.



No I just want something that makes sense, the current elemental level system doesn't. But I won't delve into the details as it is a topic beaten to death. The issue isn't that there is grind or whatever but that the current eureka grind makes no sense.

So basically... if you had known there would be a reward for finishing Eureka you would have stuck it out? Well now you know there is one, no one is stopping you from going back into Eureka. It isn't going anywhere.

[Nora_of_Mira]

I don't think you really understand my point.

this is correct for me. I'm not really sure what your point is, unless I just assume this "public dungeon" is actually interesting content that people are going to miss out on. because if that's the case, I certainly don't care. There is tons of content in this game I knowingly miss out on because I don't craft/gather/care about ponies/make gil/run maps/do deliveries/own a house/RP(?) but missing out doesn't bother me in the slightest because I'm willingly not participating in them.


but can we really say we know exactly what we're going to get? Will it actually be interesting? And if it flops, will you still care that its gated?

[uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu]

It's already been quoted here, people:

So the people doing the content have something to do from 4.5x to 5.0.

Yoshida: Hai. The public dungeon i spoke about isn't really a part of Hydatos if you ask me. Hydatos concludes just like Pyros and Anemos. The "public dungeon" is for those who have done everything else in Eureka and have nothing else to do. The weapon upgrades and the story can be done without touching the public dungeon, so please don't worry. You can casually enjoy Hydatos like the other Eureka areas.

Correct me if I'm wrong: It's public dungeon in sense like Eureka, but it's not behind it.

What would be the business logic of making an MMO inside an MMO inside an MMO ... ?? If SE is as naive as that, simply wait till they put Eureka Jump Potions in mogstation then the cycle is complete.. How many reborns can an mmo take..

[InkstainedGwyn]

It's already been quoted here, people:

Correct me if I'm wrong: It's public dungeon in sense like Eureka, but it's not behind it.

What would be the business logic of making an MMO inside an MMO inside an MMO ... ?? If SE is as naive as that, simply wait till they put Eureka Jump Potions in mogstation then the cycle is complete.. How many reborns can an mmo take..

No, it sounds like "the public dungeon isn't involved in finishing the Eureka storyline, it's for people to still have a reason to go into Eureka to do things" (i.e. keep it from dying so fast that people can't get their weapons two months later). Nothing about that says "it's not in Eureka" to me.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

Essentially what you're saying is that you want the content to be more easily accessible for people who didn't spend time leveling in eureka for one reason or another. Whereas Yoshida has stated on multiple occasions that Eureka was designed to be content for old school MMO players who enjoy long grinds and grueling endgame content. In this very interview he says the public dungeon is not "casual" content, and casual players should avoid it.

So to answer your question, why is there an alternate leveling system ? Because it was designed that way to be a long grind on purpose. The public dungeon is content for the type of people who enjoy these kinds of grinds. If you don't like it, it just means you're not one of the people this content was intended for and you don't have to do it.