SCH needs some nerfs

[Grimoire-M]

-snip-

To me the solution is pretty simple. Nerf Indom to 300 potency, but make it's cooldown 1s, like Lustrate. The reason I think that's a good idea is because the current Indom feels too good, to the point that upping its cost to 2 aetherflow seems good, but doing so is also pretty restrictive. Nerfing the potency to 400 isn't really significant enough, barely putting more pressure on the other healer (or makes the SCH use one of their Eos cooldowns), and the lower cooldown doesn't really affect much in terms of common use (though Dissipation certainly gets better with it as a result). The main difference is in situations where Star/Assize is also being used at the same time. The amount of Indoms you may use varies quite a bit if you're coordinating with another healer's oGCDs.

I feel that change to Indom specifically is necessary because SCH has less AoE tools compared to single target ones, and while this certainly ups their frequency of use, it also puts more pressure on optimally managing Aetherflow overall, thus punishing SCHs for mis-using it more. And I do think it might be necessary to reduce the MP cost on some of their spells to compensate for this. I don't feel Miasma II or Physick need such a change, but Succor and Adlo might, and even then, a full revert isn't necessary, given Quickened Aetherflow does help a bit in that regard.

[lulunami]

The elephant in the room is Earthly Star. In fights where AoE healing is only required at most once every minute, Earthly Star basically trivializes any AoE raid damage. In Deltascape, Sigmascape, and Alphascape, Earthly Star is just too strong and makes Cure III so weak in comparison. Indom was likely buffed to 500 potency mainly because of how overpowered Earthly Star was in 4.0. Earthly Star is probably the reason why SCH can safely use Energy Drain and ignore Indom. The only fight where Earthly Star is weak in is UCoB since major AoE healing occurs more than once a minute. Earthly generates zero enmity for AST as well.

oGCD burst heals have become way too strong to the point that formerly cure-bomb heal, Cure III feel weak. If you make any healer able to heal any content, then it invalidates any healing advantage another healer has over another job. DPS utility becomes the only optimal solution and I frankly find that uninteresting for healing jobs.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

oGCD burst heals have become way too strong to the point that formerly cure-bomb heal, Cure III feel weak.

This is just it really. OGCDs have gotten out of hand, you barely have to manually heal anymore. It's probably far too late now, but getting rid of these massive healing CD bombs would probably do a lot of good for healers in general.

And yes, Cure III was good back when it was the only choice for massive aoe healing, but this is not ARR anymore. SCH and AST both have answers to a Cure III equivalent that actually works better. It's really nothing special anymore.

[Grimoire-M]

-snip-

I specifically said 300 potency on a 1s cooldown like Lustrate. Not 300 potency on a 30s cooldown (which is still better than Assize by the way. Hell it's comparable to Medica and Helios, but you still get to deal damage during it). It's basically at will. You can still weave two of them in a single GCD and get 600 potency with minimal clipping (It's equivalent to using Swiftcast Med II + PI on WHM with better results), which is more than enough when you need that. Again, SCH has a lot of tools to deal with single target healing without spending a single GCD or Aetherflow at all, and they're the only healer with an instant cast DPS spell that they can always use to weave. Hell they have the Aetherflow to spare for Miasma II + Energy Drain when that's available already. The Fairy is that good. The current Indom handles their AoE side practically by itself in everything but Ultimate. And that combination is what pushes them over the edge compared to WHM and AST, and it's primarily the cooldown that's doing that in the first place. They have it up too often, and it's too good. If you're in a fight where that's somehow costing you multiple GCDs over a fight you're likely already using Succor to begin with and will have a good reason to consider using Soil and ED instead.

The only other reasonable alternatives would be to leave the potency as is and either nerf the cooldown to 60s, or make it cost 2 Aetherflow. But neither feels right. And 400 leaves it at an awkward spot where it might be enough in some spots and forces overhealing in others compared to the current version. Hence why I settled on 300 potency on a 1s cooldown. It's the right nerf, out of all the reasonable options.

Regarding Adlo/Succor, reducing their MP costs is a buff, not a nerf. If they cost less to use that leaves SCH with more MP for their DPS spells. The reason SCH felt bad at launch (aside from QoL, cause there was a hell of a lot of QoL issues that SE then went ahead and added more buffs on top of fixing those issues) was because those two spells had their MP costs increased, and Energy Drain and Aetherflow had their MP restoration nerfed as part of the 4.0 changes. Keep in mind Quickened Aetherflow was not reliable then either, and Summons still cost a ton of MP and took nearly as long as a res, so you couldn't even use Dissipation to counteract the problem even in ideal situations. It would only put you further and further behind until the 4.1 changes happened. I specifically said to only consider reducing the cost of Adlo/Succor costs if and only if 300 potency/1s CD Indom change was done in the first place. It's contingent on that one change. Just because SCH wants to avoid using Succor/Adlo doesn't mean they won't use it if they have to. Thus, if SCHs are using a lot more Adlos and Succors as a result of the nerfed Indom, then make that change. If not, then it's clearly not needed.

Comparing Diurnal Helios and Medica II to Succor is a mistake too. They're HoTs, and thus they require time to become more efficient than Succor. Succor is only 375 Healing potency, but it's all applied immediately. It takes Medica II and Diurnal Helios 4 server ticks to become more efficient, which is 12 seconds after you cast it. That's enough time that you're probably dead if you used it to replace a Succor at the time you'd want a Succor at all. You use Succor, Helios, and Cure III when you need enough healing and/or mitigation to survive something in a couple GCDs (in other words back to back AoE) and don't have any appropriate oGCDs to spare for that task in that moment. The only exceptions to this really is PI + Medica II which breaks even but still costs two cooldowns (one of which could be used in multiple better ways) on top of the GCD to add 150 potency, enough that it might matter alongside a Succor for some heavy hitting AoEs, or spacing out Medicas during a jump phase in order to set up PI stacks for another AoE later on because those let the SCH get in multiple ED + Miasma II weaves for more overall DPS.

Exiled_Tonberry already hit the note on why the nerf needs to happen in the first place. oGCDs are too good right now, but SCH has the the majority of the best ones. I don't feel that Star is out of line though. It's right where it needs to be. Indom needs a nerf and Assize and possibly PI need buffs. PI mostly in generation, and Assize in potency. Assize would be a good candidate for 400 healing potency in all honesty (assuming Lily changes boost its potency further) Maybe make it generate a PI stack too.

[Deceptus]

This is just it really. OGCDs have gotten out of hand, you barely have to manually heal anymore. It's probably far too late now, but getting rid of these massive healing CD bombs would probably do a lot of good for healers in general.

And yes, Cure III was good back when it was the only choice for massive aoe healing, but this is not ARR anymore. SCH and AST both have answers to a Cure III equivalent that actually works better. It's really nothing special anymore.

Cure3 isn't used more because of it's crazy small aoe range. If it had the same range as Medica it'd get used a LOT more.

[HyperiusUltima]

Cure3 isn't used more because of it's crazy small aoe range. If it had the same range as Medica it'd get used a LOT more.

It would, but then what’s the point of having a large ass AoE heal that is significantly weaker? Cure III is fine as it is since it’s an integral part of their kit, but we’ve been through this argument cycle time and time again: WHM needs a Job Gauge That doesn’t inhibit its play by being useless and unused 90% of the time. Every other job has some good interaction with their gauge, but nothing is less interactive than WHM’s.It’s simply filler.

[galbsadi]

It would, but then what’s the point of having a large ass AoE heal that is significantly weaker? Cure III is fine as it is since it’s an integral part of their kit, but we’ve been through this argument cycle time and time again: WHM needs a Job Gauge That doesn’t inhibit its play by being useless and unused 90% of the time. Every other job has some good interaction with their gauge, but nothing is less interactive than WHM’s.It’s simply filler.

I'd argue the fairy gauge is pretty damn useless most of the time.

[HyperiusUltima]

I'd argue the fairy gauge is pretty damn useless most of the time.

True, but the fairy gauge is mainly there as a resource to use for gigantic fairy regens.

Lilies just gives you Cooldown Reduction which is bad all around.

[jameseoakes]

Exiled_Tonberry already hit the note on why the nerf needs to happen in the first place. oGCDs are too good right now, but SCH has the the majority of the best ones. I don't feel that Star is out of line though. It's right where it needs to be. Indom needs a nerf and Assize and possibly PI need buffs. PI mostly in generation, and Assize in potency. Assize would be a good candidate for 400 healing potency in all honesty (assuming Lily changes boost its potency further) Maybe make it generate a PI stack too.

But burst healing is pretty much the whole healing kit, WHM needs some love but gutting another class to do it isn't the way.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I'd argue the fairy gauge is pretty damn useless most of the time.

The fairy guage is pretty pointless, but it does still directly tie in to your use of aetherflow and rewards you with a massive single target regen. Obviously you were going to use aetherflow regardless, but the point is the guage encourages that.

Now imagine the guage only filled through the use of Physick casts, something a SCH almost never casts and is in no way beneficial to the job. That's pretty much lilies, it's not only useless but goes against how a WHM should even be played.