Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"

[Gallus]

Your post doesn't make much sense, complaining about insults when you accuse others of creating a sewer, calling others too sensitive when you're the one getting upset about the most mild forms of criticism. Very odd.

I'm expressing a different opinion than yours, I'm not upset.
You guys can keep going around offering as much "friendly" advice as you want, but nobody is going to acknowledge your cause because it doesn't exist. Companies are not concerned over players being too sensitive because they can't take friendly advice. They do however, have online tribunals, perform chat disables and launch permabans over an endless sea of players being the opposite of tactful when approaching other players.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I'm expressing a different opinion than yours, I'm not upset, I can sleep tight at night, you guys can keep going around offering as much "friendly" advice as you want, but nobody is going to acknowledge your cause because it doesn't exist. Companies are not concerned over players being too sensitive because they can't take friendly advice. They do however, have online tribunals, perform chat disables and launch permabans over an endless sea of players being the opposite of tactful when approaching other players.

Except for maybe the Feast chat, the playerbase is nowhere near as toxic as you paint it, that it'd require such measures.
Therefore your opinion has no ground to stand on.

[Gallus]

Except for maybe the Feast chat, the playerbase is nowhere near as toxic as you paint it, that it'd require such measures.
Therefore your opinion has no ground to stand on.

Maybe, but you're on your way there.
Four years ago, most people would've sympathised with the TC. Calling someone idiot is never justified. However, this thread proves (at least in this forum), that nowadays we have a significant amount of people going around offering "friendly" advice. That doesn't sound very healthy. Might just be me though.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Maybe, but you're on your way there.
Four years ago, most people would've sympathised with the TC. Calling someone idiot is never justified. However, this thread proves (at least in this forum), that nowadays we have a significant amount of people going around offering "friendly" advice. That doesn't sound very healthy. Might just be me though.

Can you quote where someone here justified calling someone an idiot? Or are you just making that up?

Bear in mind that bad =/= idiot

[Vidu]

Maybe, but you're on your way there.
Four years ago, most people would've sympathised with the TC. Calling someone idiot is never justified. However, this thread proves (at least in this forum), that nowadays we have a significant amount of people going around offering "friendly" advice. That doesn't sound very healthy. Might just be me though.

Please point to a significant amount of posts... or, wait, even one! that supports your point of people saying that its okay to go around and call people idiots.

Most of us are actually adovating for giving advice in a polite and friendly manner - or dismissing people silently from a duty.
No one here says that you should go around and call people "idiots". There is no need to insult someone, that is indeed never justified. And I dont recall reading a post that said otherwise.

But not playing at 70 like you know that you're at level 70 is also never justified - not even by the points listed in the OP. At a certain point you stop being new; sorting out your UI is something you do on your own time; and if you're sick enough that it influences your performance greatly: Stay in bed, rest, get better - or at least dont burden 3/7/23 strangers with it.
Telling someone who cant perform the basics of their job in The Burn shouldnt happen, I agree - but its also totally justified to tell that person, in a polite manner, that they really need to improve.

[Gallus]

Please point to a significant amount of posts... or, wait, even one! that supports your point of people saying that its okay to go around and call people idiots.

Most of us are actually adovating for giving advice in a polite and friendly manner - or dismissing people silently from a duty.
No one here says that you should go around and call people "idiots". There is no need to insult someone, that is indeed never justified. And I dont recall reading a post that said otherwise.

But not playing at 70 like you know that you're at level 70 is also never justified - not even by the points listed in the OP. At a certain point you stop being new; sorting out your UI is something you do on your own time; and if you're sick enough that it influences your performance greatly: Stay in bed, rest, get better - or at least dont burden 3/7/23 strangers with it.
Telling someone who cant perform the basics of their job in The Burn shouldnt happen, I agree - but its also totally justified to tell that person, in a polite manner, that they really need to improve.

Not idiot, bad. My fault. Bad is still derogatory though. The point of the thread was that you don't go around calling bad to people. Seemed pretty obvious to me, but a disappointing amount of people seemed to be on the other side. Noticing a worrying trend here.

[Vidu]

Not idiot, bad. My fault. Bad is still derogatory though. The point of the thread was that you don't go around calling bad to people. Seemed pretty obvious to me, but a disappointing amount of people seemed to be on the other side. Noticing a worrying trend here.

Still, thats a big difference - "bad" can be a neutral and true assessment of skill, while idiot is a clear personal attack.

And I'm sorry, but a tank who cant hold aggro is a bad tank and there is no sugarcoating that.
Personally I prefer to tell people how to fix them being bad without telling them that they are.

But please, what would you call a tank whos losing aggro on the Mist Dragon? Maybe not to their face, but as neutral assessment of their skill? How would you describe that tank to your friends? "Aaawww, I just had the cutestet paladin in The Burn! He was so afraid of the dragon that the healer got to tank it!"

"Bad" is not an insult and if you're only understanding it as derogatory term with no basis... oh dear... sometimes people are just "bad" at something. Maybe without being aware of it - which is a shame, because then they could improve in a lot of cases. Obviously, they cant and wont do that if no one tells them that they have room to improve.
We havent even been adovacting to tell people "You're really bad at your job", there are ways to express that without calling them bad - "Please read up a guide"; "You can really improve on playing your job" - but I bet those are mean aswell...

[Gallus]

Still, thats a big difference - "bad" can be a neutral and true assessment of skill, while idiot is a clear personal attack.

Both are personal attacks. Bad isn't an assessment of skill. An assessment of skill consists on telling someone where they can improve. Telling someone they are bad helps nobody improve. Not even accounting for the fact the player in question could very well be doing their job properly while you are in the wrong here.

[Vidu]

I'm expressing a different opinion than yours, I'm not upset, I can sleep tight at night, you guys can keep going around offering as much "friendly" advice as you want, but nobody is going to acknowledge your cause because it doesn't exist. Companies are not concerned over players being too sensitive because they can't take friendly advice. They do however, have online tribunals, perform chat disables and launch permabans over an endless sea of players being the opposite of tactful when approaching other players.

You're not exactly expressing a different opinion though - at least not without accusing the entire community of only giving toxic advice, insulting other players and not being tactful - whatever that even means in this context. You need to be tactful when someone has an actual problem that requires that (death, illness, a very bad new haircut), but not when you inform them in a polite and neutral way that they need more training or consulte a guide.

Companies shouldnt be concerned about players not taking advice because players shouldnt have to give and take it in the first place. I truely wish for heaver gating in this game - which is to say: gating at all.
Each time I see threads pop up about people struggling with solo-instances I shake my head in disbelieve and am wondering how someone at level 70 can have come that far and yet be so absoultly incompetent. And instead of going about this with "Okay, what did I do wrong and how can I improve?" their answer is "NERF! Nerf this is to hard!"

This game has a vote-kick-function and thankfully its legit to kick for "difference in playstyle" - so if you're playstyle in The Burn equals using about the skill you got at level 30, I can kick you. Without a tribunal or a ban coming my way.
And how tactful and considerate of your fellow players is such behaviour? You know, behaviour that involves going into a dungeon unprepared?

You're implying that all of us who try to offer actually friendly advice in the form of very simple requests ("Please use [skill]") are actually toxic and tactless and call that "having a different opinion".

You might be right - no one will gives a badge for giving advice, but I dont need such a badge. Either I managed to make the game more pleasent for everyone involved, the advice-reciving person involved (a lot of jobs are just so much more fun at 70 when you actually play them at 70) - or I made the run at least more pleasent for 3 people involved, by removing someone who had no consideration for fellow partymembers whatsoever.

[Gallus]

In all my years of online experience, I've never noticed a worrying trend of hermetic people that absolutely refuse to listen to others because they don't want to improve (I believe that sums up your cause). However, I've been noticing an increasing amount of people normalizing insults, flame and harassment. Against the latter, companies have gone a long way to create multiple tools in a poor attempt to alleviate it, and I say poor because the problem not only persists but seems to be getting worse over the years.
Technically, we are all accusing here, you are accusing people of being too sensitive and not taking friendly advice properly, while I'm accusing others of perhaps (just perhaps...) not being so tactful when the reaction on the other side is commonly hostile.

Each time I see threads pop up about people struggling with solo-instances I shake my head in disbelieve and am wondering how someone at level 70 can have come that far and yet be so absoultly incompetent. And instead of going about this with "Okay, what did I do wrong and how can I improve?" their answer is "NERF! Nerf this is to hard!"

People are different than you. Many approach this game in a very different way than you. Perhaps you are very passionate about FFXIV and like setting your goals high there, which is totally fine and respectable. But what about someone that plays FFXIV along with 3 or 4 other games? Is it not acceptable for someone to play FFXIV maybe 1 hour a day or 4 hours a week? Whether that's a waste of a sub it's up to each individual, but that's still respectable no? That might be the sort of player that asks for advice or struggles. You don't need to shake your head in disbelief over that, people have different ambitions and expectations when it comes to playing this game (or any other game for that matter).