This Needs to Be Said

[KaivaC]

I have a question...let's imagine that everybody who dislike Eureka stops running it (I still don't understand why they do...) and, in one year, we have statistics that show that the number of Eureka final weapons is really high among the playerbase. Will you claim that the content shouldn't exist in the game, or admit that it's simply something you personally don't like ? You know, like PvP or Savage arent' for everyone...

Number 1, that argument is flawed because relics are tied behind Eureka. Even if statistics are high, that doesn't mean that a vast majority of those players are going to like having to go through an extremely long grind like this. This is where the feedback part would've really came in. For such an ambitious project that has taken so many resources to use, it is surprising that the devs have not offered a way for those in-game players to leave honest feedback on the system. A better argument would've been if relics weren't tied to this, but rather something else entirely, and numbers were still high.

Let's be honest here: this is first time I've openly stated my disdain for Eureka. I don't intend to make multiple threads railing against it, or going around different threads and shooting down Eureka (bringing this up specifically because you are mentioning Savage and I know where this might lead). To answer your question directly: my opinion won't change just because other players either are enjoying it, or are running it in high numbers. I don't care that there are a lot of others who are actively running it and having fun - like I've said before, do you. But myself and others don't have to like it. And if one little thread like mines makes people feel triggered enough that they felt that they had to respond against my comments, simply because myself and others don't like it, then oh well, go make a support thread about it. Don't come here and tell me I'm wrong for disliking something.

I don't really mean to sit here and have this back and forth with you, I'm surprised you picked my simple comment to pick a bone against, I wasn't expecting any response from it. Your response to my original comment was the only passive aggressive comment in our exchange because it required no response yet you felt upset enough about it to give me the standard "well maybe you should". I meant to point out how other players can accept content not tailored to their preference yet we have an unending amount of threads dedicated to expressing resentment with Eureka. Maybe this is evidence to your point and it is your right to voice your opinion but understand that I was excercising that same right when disagreeing with you.

Ok? I suppose positing a decent, sarcastic response to your baiting equates being upset. Sure, why not. *shrugs* We've had about 2 posts each to one another - not exactly what I would call a back-and-forth. Like I have told posters before, if you take an issue with players like me openly expressing our dislike about Eureka, you can easily just make a support thread rather than try to say 'you people are wrong for disliking this content' without really even saying why we are wrong. About your comment on rights to voice opinions...I mean, I did encourage you to go ahead and make a thread complaining about Savage if that's how you felt. I'm here expressing my opinion about Eureka, so I have no idea why you're bringing the right to voice opinions up when I don't believe nobody has been told to not express their opinion.

So far, all I've been seeing is "How dare you not like Eureka, Kaiva! How dare you express your opinion against 'good' content! I need to tell you how you are wrong for saying you don't like Eureka".

I mean, if that's the counter-argument...

Did you even play during Diadem? Seems odd to make yourself the poster girl for this rage thread.

I am simply stating an opinion. I've always done that.

[Ilyrian]

I am simply stating an opinion. I've always done that.

Other peoples.
But good to have you back nonetheless - I need at least 5 threads a day I can roll my eyes to. It's been very quiet without you.

[Reynhart]

Even if statistics are high, that doesn't mean that a vast majority of those players are going to like having to go through an extremely long grind like this.

This is a video game, if a content is not fun, you can simply don't do it. If you still do, then thank you, you're playing the part of those who like it and encourage SE creating more content than this.

This is where the feedback part would've really came in.

Any feedback is only a minority. SE will trust statistics more than any feedback.

For such an ambitious project that has taken so many resources to use, it is surprising that the devs have not offered a way for those in-game players to leave honest feedback on the system.

Unless you make a mandatory poll on logging, you can't force people to give you feedback. It's not the devs' fault if so few people use the forum.

To answer your question directly: my opinion won't change just because other players either are enjoying it, or are running it in high numbers.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion. We can consider a content as valuable asset, even if we don't directly run it. Me, I don't do Savage nor PvP, nor housing, nor Gold Saucer, but I admit that it helps giving some players a goal that dungeon and primals alone wouldn't cover. So, it's good for them. On the other hand, I really doubt enough people play Lords Of Verminion to consider it an important part of the game.

My problem is not that people don't like it, but that the fact that they don't like is valid enough to ask forchanging it completely, damn be those who like it, or even deleting it.

Again, the only thing I'd say you're wrong about is "doing a content you don't like" but that's not specific to Eureka.

[KaivaC]

Other peoples.
But good to have you back nonetheless - I need at least 5 threads a day I can roll my eyes to. It's been very quiet without you.

Oh those sweet, sweet lies that you tell.

This is a video game, if a content is not fun, you can simply don't do it. If you still do, then thank you, you're playing the part of those who like it and encourage SE creating more content than this.

Any feedback is only a minority. SE will trust statistics more than any feedback.

Unless you make a mandatory poll on logging, you can't force people to give you feedback. It's not the devs' fault if so few people use the forum.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion. We can consider a content as valuable asset, even if we don't directly run it. Me, I don't do Savage nor PvP, nor housing, nor Gold Saucer, but I admit that it helps giving some players a goal that dungeon and primals alone wouldn't cover. So, it's good for them. On the other hand, I really doubt enough people play Lords Of Verminion to consider it an important part of the game.

My problem is not that people don't like it, but that the fact that they don't like is valid enough to ask forchanging it completely, damn be those who like it, or even deleting it.

Again, the only thing I'd say you're wrong about is "doing a content you don't like" but that's not specific to Eureka.

Oi...

Here's the thing about 'if it's not fun, don't play it': relics are tied behind it. So matter what, if you want those relics, you have no choice but to run this. There's the trap right there. If the devs are simply going by participation numbers, and are ignoring whether players are satisfied or not, then naturally, they'll be encouraged to do it more. Even if it means irritating their player base. If players like you value Eureka and you enjoy it, then that's fine. I've not once said that players who enjoy it shouldn't continue to run it. If Eureka and future content like this were deleted in the future, yes, I myself would be fine with that. Again, if people want to counter this, they are more than welcome to make their own support threads for it. Coming here only for the sole purpose of saying that myself and others who dislike or hate Eureka are either in the wrong or shouldn't be making threads like these are just wasting time, in my opinion. Not necessarily directing that at you, to be clear.

In regards to feedback, you are right, you can't force people to give you feedback. But you can definitely encourage it from a dev's standpoint. They could easily set a system message every time you enter Eureka for a specific time period, say two weeks, with a simple message: "We encourage our fellow adventurers to leave feedback on Eureka Anemos/Pagos by visiting our Official Forums". Simple and sweet. Or creating a poll on the Lodestone, that way they have to use their account. They could even improve the poll by locking it to players who have actually visited Eureka/Pagos for the most accurate feedback. If they were so inclined to do it.

[Reynhart]

relics are tied behind it. So matter what, if you want those relics, you have no choice but to run this.

But since obtaining the relic is already your choice, you have the choice not to run this content.
It's exactly the same as every other weapon besides Tome. If you want Byakko weapon, you do Byakko EX, if you want an Empyrean weapon, you have to do HoH, if you want a Diamond weapon, you do Omega Savage. You're the one giving that much importance to the relic, so you're the one forcing you to do the content, so again, it's on you, especially when they made perfectly clear from the get go that this would be a "Eureka weapon".

If the devs are simply going by participation numbers, and are ignoring whether players are satisfied or not, then naturally, they'll be encouraged to do it more.

And they're right to do so, since again, if you're not satisfied, no one forces you to do it. And they can't have a decent sample on how many people are "satisfied".

Coming here only for the sole purpose of saying that myself and others who dislike or hate Eureka are either in the wrong or shouldn't be making threads like these are just wasting time, in my opinion.

That's why I make myself clear that you're not in the wrong for not liking it

But you can definitely encourage it from a dev's standpoint.

Color me pesimistic but I doubt "encouraging" would be enough. But, frankly, I wouldn't be against a mandatory poll at login. Since Eureka is clearly the most divisive part of SB, it would help having a clear tendency, wether it favors me or you.

[MomomiMomi]

You're the one giving that much importance to the relic, so you're the one forcing you to do the content, so again, it's on you, especially when they made perfectly clear from the get go that this would be a "Eureka weapon".

You say things like this, but then you say gems like this:

Forcing you to revisit old content even if you've done it a thousand times and have nothing else to gain from it it a very dumb concept, made just so that they don't had to put effort into doing any new content.

You should at least try to be consistent.

[Reynhart]

I wouldn't want a mandatory poll. Like I said earlier, the devs could easily just encourage it, but don't force players to give feedback - that's just shooting yourself in the foot.

Let's be real, it's too late now to change Pyros or the fourth installment from their planned release. So, I'd say it's a good time to have a real significant feedback so that they can adjust what big alternate content they have in store for the next expansion. At worst, people will massively dislike it, and it will help not making the same "mistakes".

But they certainly can make it easy for players to provide honest feedback.

It's very easy to post on the forum to provide your feedback, but people are lazy to not do it.

[KaivaC]

Let's be real, it's too late now to change Pyros or the fourth installment from their planned release. So, I'd say it's a good time to have a real significant feedback so that they can adjust what big alternate content they have in store for the next expansion. At worst, people will massively dislike it, and it will help not making the same "mistakes".

It's very easy to post on the forum to provide your feedback, but people are lazy to not do it.

Oh yeah, it is definitely too late to make any significant changes. There's a fourth zone that's supposed to be coming, isn't there? The devs are going to have to be really honest about wanting feedback, and they're going to have to be willing to take it seriously enough that they would make changes to future content like this - or at least put in multiple ways that you can go after your relic, rather than just pure FATE grinding for significant boosts.

I agree that it's really simple to provide feedback through the forums - but again, I feel like it would be better if 1) the devs encouraged it and 2) they actually took that feedback seriously.

[HiroesX81]

This is a video game, if a content is not fun, you can simply don't do it. If you still do, then thank you, you're playing the part of those who like it and encourage SE creating more content than this.

Any feedback is only a minority. SE will trust statistics more than any feedback.

Unless you make a mandatory poll on logging, you can't force people to give you feedback. It's not the devs' fault if so few people use the forum.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion. We can consider a content as valuable asset, even if we don't directly run it. Me, I don't do Savage nor PvP, nor housing, nor Gold Saucer, but I admit that it helps giving some players a goal that dungeon and primals alone wouldn't cover. So, it's good for them. On the other hand, I really doubt enough people play Lords Of Verminion to consider it an important part of the game.

My problem is not that people don't like it, but that the fact that they don't like is valid enough to ask forchanging it completely, damn be those who like it, or even deleting it.

Again, the only thing I'd say you're wrong about is "doing a content you don't like" but that's not specific to Eureka.

I had a full party for light grinding yesterday with no one quareling or complaining in a 143 ppl instance. 2 days ago a small party of 4 in a instance of 142. Week before people spawning nms between top and bottom. Instance was 141. Good luck to all of you and whatever 'feedback' they give.

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Ok? I suppose positing a decent, sarcastic response to your baiting equates being upset. Sure, why not. *shrugs* We've had about 2 posts each to one another - not exactly what I would call a back-and-forth. Like I have told posters before, if you take an issue with players like me openly expressing our dislike about Eureka, you can easily just make a support thread rather than try to say 'you people are wrong for disliking this content' without really even saying why we are wrong. About your comment on rights to voice opinions...I mean, I did encourage you to go ahead and make a thread complaining about Savage if that's how you felt. I'm here expressing my opinion about Eureka, so I have no idea why you're bringing the right to voice opinions up when I don't believe nobody has been told to not express their opinion.

So far, all I've been seeing is "How dare you not like Eureka, Kaiva! How dare you express your opinion against 'good' content! I need to tell you how you are wrong for saying you don't like Eureka".

I mean, if that's the counter-argument...



I am simply stating an opinion. I've always done that.

I wasn't done editing when you wrote back- my fault, anyhow.

This is an mmo, you pick and choose whats compatible with you- not everything will be, if we set the bar at "new content must be the type for me or it can't be constructed because it takes time from the delivery of the set dungeons and raids" -a formula we complain about to no end as well, how can we ever innovate. It may not be perfect but at least they are trying and that means taking risks and persevering past failure. I think it is safe to say most people agree some favorable progress is being made with every iteration of the instance, although yes probably Anemos is more likable. But maybe this is evidence to your point and it is your right to voice your opinion but understand that I was exercising that same right when disagreeing with you. However I admit my original comment was in poor taste and improperly conveyed my intent, I'm not trying to accuse you of any wrongdoing.

Edit: But seeing your post from above it seems the main gripe is relics being tied to it? I mean, I can't argue against it, they have changed the way we obtain them and if this content doesn't suit you I can see why you dislike it, I can't offer any solution to that matter but compared to how they used to be obtained what is the biggest barrier for you? Group play doesn't seem to be a problem from your original post, is it the grind? I recommend you try Pagos before jumping to conclusions based off what other people are saying about Pagos, you mentioned you have not yet tried it. It really isn't that bad, I think it can be finished easily in less than a month.