Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[Listrella]

I think 2.5 seconds gives you time to think if it was too fast I wouldn't be able to keep up, it keeps things more tactical.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Rotations are simple and obvious. People aren't failing simple DPS checks because of complex rotations. They're failing them because they don't care or understand the concept of ABC. Everytime I look at someones logs who asks for help, or look at meters to see why my teammates are doing damage that wasn't acceptable in HW, let alone SB, it's ALWAYS, consistently the same reason.

People don't push buttons. Full Stop.

Sidenote - It's a little ironic giving a person a hard time because they don't do savage, when you haven't even cleared a single raid tier this expansion according to Lodestone.

Haven't really cared to finish them, lack of drive more than performance. My raid group stopped after 2nd forsaken prog, and I found someone I've been spending my time with.

If I wanted to clear it I could.

I at least don't complain about content or concepts I have know knowledge or experience in.

I also didn't even specifically say savage. They haven't even done omega sigma normal or lighthouse... (not that these are hard either. Didn't see most of the 4.0 extremes done either)

[kikix12]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this at all. Other games without super long GCDs like this operate just fine.

First...no, they don't. I mean, they DO operate, but games like shooters either limit the matchmaking by regions or people simply don't play them if they do get the problems of high PING at all. They didn't magically solve the problem at all. They just eliminate the player base which have a problem.
Then there are some hardcore people that actually do play. But on your screen...they will just seem like crappy players.

There are other methods to mitigate the issue based on CLIENT-SIDE calculations, but that makes the games prone to cheating. That's why Square Enix doesn't want to do that, because they don't want to spend money on real quality security to prevent client-sided cheating. Look at the bots. They don't even care about investing in dealing with them, even though some are painfully obvious and a good system would automatically eliminate them within minute from the characters being made (teleporting or standing in player-unaccessible places anyone?!). But alas...even they cannot fully solve the issue.


On a different note, I'd say that being one of the most popular MMO games out there, FFXIV DOES operate fine as is.

It is a choice. You made the decision to sacrifice significant performance to play with friends (and I get and respect that). I'm going to say something that might ruffle some feathers, but with all due respect, you shouldn't be catered too. I don't think anyone should be designing systems with the idea of having people from the other side of the planet into account until infrastructure is there to support it.

It seems you gravely misunderstand something. I don't ask to be catered to. It is Square Enix that decided to cater to me and I'm just taking advantage of that.

That's also the cost of having a "world wide" game. This IS advertised as a global game and it DOES allow people to enter ANY server. So it should be consequential and make it PLAYABLE as chosen. If the servers were region restricted before I bought it...sure. I'd have zero issue with that. Developers choice. I can decide whether to buy the game or not. But it was Square Enix that WANTED people like me to get the game, subscribe and play it (well, not really, they don't want us to play it, it's ideal for them if we pay subscription and never log on...). So they reached out to players like me and made the game that way.


I'll reverse your argument. It's your choice to play this game if it have a combat system that you find unappealing. You can look for a different game, more action-packed. There are tons of them. If you are in NA, your horizons are WAY bigger than mine in all things digital, gaming, entertainment and what not for less money than for me to boot. So don't come here and give subjective arguments to counter objective arguments. I merely stated the reason for high cooldown. That's all.

[Kirsten_Rev]

I merely stated the reason for high cooldown. That's all.

The high cooldown has nothing to do with latency mitigation, and everything to do with strain on XIV's servers. Suppose that SE wants to handle 500ms latency: that's going to take no more than one second for you to get a response back from the server for an action. The server ticks (and, accordingly, the GCD) could be a lot lower than 2.5s, and still be fine for this purpose.

SE's hardware, on the other hand, would be brought to its knees, just as it was when 1.0 was originally released with much more frequent server ticks. The back-end wasn't up to the task, and the interface felt horribly laggy as a result, because servers weren't promptly sending responses. To remedy this, they'd need to either (a) upgrade hardware, or (b) improve FFXIV's architecture so as to require fewer server-side calculations. Unfortunately, they don't seem inclined to do either.

As an aside, while FFXIV operates fine as-is, there is a lot SE could do to improve efficiency of the netcode, so as to get more power out of their servers. For example, suppose you're lagging (or disconnecting) and you decide to click on an Estate door to exit into the Housing district. Notice that nothing appears? That's because SE doesn't just require server-side confirmation for transitioning to a new map (good behaviour) - they also require server-side confirmation just to display the door options. That latter is entirely unnecessary, serves no security role whatsoever, yet nonetheless places a burden on the servers. From vendor NPCs to dialogue options, there's a lot of unnecessary data being sent back and forth constantly just to make the game work. There is a chance that this was done due to PS3 limitations, but it certainly shouldn't be necessary any longer. So, they've got a lot of room for improvement, and constructive criticism along the lines of improving the feel of combat is perfectly justified.

[NessaWyvern]

Well, I have played this and WoW, and I prefer this slower style of combat, and how large enemy mechanics play a role in this game.
WoW isn't as mechanic heavy as FFXIV imo, and I feel like I am mashing the poor buttons on my keyboard when I play it because of the faster GCD. (Plus healers feel less effective in that game, and I am a healer at heart)

[Lunavi]

Personally I do not think so, but for people coming from faster games I can definitely see how a 2.5 sec GCD can feel like an annoyance. Personally I prefer slower combat though.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Haven't really cared to finish them, lack of drive more than performance. My raid group stopped after 2nd forsaken prog, and I found someone I've been spending my time with.

If I wanted to clear it I could.

I at least don't complain about content or concepts I have know knowledge or experience in.

I also didn't even specifically say savage. They haven't even done omega sigma normal or lighthouse... (not that these are hard either. Didn't see most of the 4.0 extremes done either)

Oh I know you could based on your logs. I was curious why you stopped actually. I appreciate the insight. The point I was trying to make though is that dismissing a persons POV outright over lack of specific exp is not good practice.

I've learned from both IRL (professionally) and gaming that people with a LACK of something often had very vital and insightful feedback. I'm 100% ok with dismissal based on the content of their post, but experience should bolster your case, not be a requirement to participate.

I think 2.5 seconds gives you time to think if it was too fast I wouldn't be able to keep up, it keeps things more tactical.

To think about what? DPS/tanking is completely binary, and healing is only marginally different. People still plan heals/oGCDs out to the second and it works almost without a hitch because heals are overtuned as heck.

There's absolutely 100% nothing tactical about this combat system.

It seems you gravely misunderstand something. I don't ask to be catered to. It is Square Enix that decided to cater to me and I'm just taking advantage of that.

Not a misunderstanding, I know you're not asking for it, but you are defending it. What I was saying is I believe that SE made a bad decision. One that contributes to the hamstringing the game currently suffers from. No right or wrong answer here really. Merely discussing the weight of the pros/cons.

That's also the cost of having a "world wide" game. This IS advertised as a global game and it DOES allow people to enter ANY server. So it should be consequential and make it PLAYABLE as chosen. If the servers were region restricted before I bought it...sure. I'd have zero issue with that. Developers choice. I can decide whether to buy the game or not. But it was Square Enix that WANTED people like me to get the game, subscribe and play it (well, not really, they don't want us to play it, it's ideal for them if we pay subscription and never log on...). So they reached out to players like me and made the game that way.

Using the word playable is a tricky as it's highly subjective. I don't consider 200 ping playable in ANY GAME. Sure you CAN play, but the experience is significantly degraded and that's enough for me to personally disqualify something as playable.

There's a very specific reason why industry standard isn't having one set of servers located in EU for all players worldwide. It's because for the vast majority of players they'd have an awful experience.

I'll reverse your argument. It's your choice to play this game if it have a combat system that you find unappealing. You can look for a different game, more action-packed. There are tons of them. If you are in NA, your horizons are WAY bigger than mine in all things digital, gaming, entertainment and what not for less money than for me to boot. So don't come here and give subjective arguments to counter objective arguments. I merely stated the reason for high cooldown. That's all.

Not quite a direct parallel. Because the combat can be offset by other mitigating factors (i.e. I like the raids, the nostalgia, the job identities, msq, gfx, music, etc.). A netcode decision (200ms buffer) does what exactly?

Makes geography less an issue? Bad solution. Makes consoles more competitive? There are other solutions there too.

Well, I have played this and WoW, and I prefer this slower style of combat, and how large enemy mechanics play a role in this game.
WoW isn't as mechanic heavy as FFXIV imo, and I feel like I am mashing the poor buttons on my keyboard when I play it because of the faster GCD. (Plus healers feel less effective in that game, and I am a healer at heart)

Re: Mechanics Heavy:

I'm not even sure how you can say this with a straight face. This is objectively inaccurate. Would you humor me and cite examples from both games to substantiate your statement?

Re: Healers

Healers are downright broken in FF14. They're way too powerful tbh.

[kikix12]

Not a misunderstanding, I know you're not asking for it, but you are defending it. What I was saying is I believe that SE made a bad decision. One that contributes to the hamstringing the game currently suffers from. No right or wrong answer here really. Merely discussing the weight of the pros/cons.

There is a "business practice". Either they continue on doing what they did or they start again doing things differently. It's not me defending the notion. It's me stating that from a business perspective, telling players that they're no longer allowed to play in the way that they advertised because they changed their opinion is the worst possible thing to do. If they want to "fix" that issue, they should say goodbye to FFXIV and start a new MMO with a different approach. Seeing as FFXIV earns tons of money...it's clear which they'll choose, right?! Especially since the slower combat is actually something that many people LIKE, and not because of PING. If my PING was 30-50, I'd enjoy it EVEN MORE. That's why I actually like turn-based games which are even "slower".

Using the word playable is a tricky as it's highly subjective.

Not really. Playable is strictly technical term. If you can do every content in the game provided you have a reasonable amount of skills, without the game preventing you from playing the game too much (frequent lag spikes, freezes, crashes), it's playable. It does not need to be fully enjoyable to be playable. Those are two completely different terms and different scales. That's why FIFA is playable even though I wouldn't want to play it...because it sucks in my opinion. At 200 PING you can do every content in the game if you have the skills. You must be that few percent better than others to clear it, but it's
still within reason. So it is playable.

Not quite a direct parallel. Because the combat can be offset by other mitigating factors (i.e. I like the raids, the nostalgia, the job identities, msq, gfx, music, etc.). A netcode decision (200ms buffer) does what exactly?

I already said what the long cooldown does. It makes the time needed for server and client to communicate a smaller percentage of the "inactivity time", therefore the severity of it is lowered. Look at it like this.
Let's assume that a player adds exactly 200ms to every action they take when playing two games. One with 200ms cooldowns and one with 2000ms cooldowns.

0,2sec cooldown gives you a skill every 0,4sec. This actually depends slightly on game, seeing as what's relevant is how the synchronization works, but the concept stays the same, just %'s change. So let's simplify it. It's simply important for both to be counted the same way.
In 22sec you get to use your skill 55 times, while a person with 0 PING...110 times. That's doing half as many actions, dealing half as much damage. And that may be the difference between an easy fight and an impossible fight. And this doesn't even take into consideration the defensive side, like dodging, which would be tuned around 0,2 cooldown. If you are half as effective in attack, it's very likely that you are unable to do any dodging, otherwise a person with low PING would have no challenge.

2sec cooldown gives you a skill every 2,2sec. That's 10 skills. A person with 0 PING will do...11. That's only one skill more. That's a smaller difference than between someone bad and someone average. That means that you are also able to dodge attacks, since they need to give leeway for some of the poorer players.


Can you become a "top-dog"?! Not really. Unless you're one of those super-geniuses that are so far ahead that even elites can't compete with you. But you CAN be one of those elites.

[SleepyNeko]

I think along with raid mechanics and proper dps rotations and enough ogcd to weave in-between for the faster classes (MNK,NIN,DRK) the game isn't slow at all. On top of that you have skill speed as well so noone is really on 2.5 sec GCD at higher levels.

If you are comparing this to other games (e.g. WoW) then you might think its a bit slower, but actually WoW is only fast at the start of the battle because you will either run out of resources (Mana/Energy/Rage) or all your skills are on CD. Also WoW doesn't have very precise rotations that you need to keep track of, you just need to hit a certain skill as soon as it comes off CD therefore there is less planning ahead compared to FFXIV. While in FF most of your skills are in a combo therefore you need to have better management of your next 7.5 secs worth of skills, most classes on WoW defaults to a single skill that you spam repeatedly when all the others are on CD or did not proc off another skill.

[Riko_Futatabi]

Jobs should interact with each other more for some sort of bonus. As it stands right now, "teamwork" is just being individually good at the job you are doing whilst in a group. However, none of our jobs are linked by any sort of system in combat that could facilitate teamwork.

I have thought about how Skillchains and Magic Bursts from FFXI could be brought into XIV for more interesting combat. Unfortunately, I cannot find a good place for such a system due to the strict individuality each job is stuck in. Specifically DPS jobs, they are stuck in doing their rotation and doing it fast because you don't want Enochian to drop, you don't want Blood of the Dragon to drop, you don't want Greased Lightning to drop. It's these strict, time limited systems that make for great individual jobs, but also do not allow any sort of system to be added that might involve teamwork or slowing the pace of combat for a moment or just not doing the rotation for a time. No one likes to stop doing the rotation or having a buff drop due to these systems for each job. It's a bad situation this games combat is in if it ever wants to evolve, it'll have to get ripped out from the roots completely and we know this will never happen.

I can't see them doing a gradual transition to a new system either. I just can't see it, but this is because I'm not even sure what I personally want from XIVs combat. I do hate its constantly-clicky nature though. It's likely why I love healing so much more. Less clicky.