Its ffxiv combat really so slow and boring?

[Kirsten_Rev]

Who says it can't be both? RPG just means Role Playing Game. Basically a persona living in an imaginary world starting out as whatever, and facing all sorts of trials and tribulations. Peaks of high moments, peaks of low moments. Friends and enemies you make along your way. All leading up to an end goal in the games world. There's no written rule that says RPG must mean poking bad things with a stick once every couple minutes and going to make a snack while waiting for your next stick poking turn is the right way to RPG vs a world where that same character can move as greased lightning. The world, the setup, the story, the situations are what make an RPG an RPG, not the combat. Hence the genre "Action RPG" was born.

Just to play devil's advocate though, I'd also point out that FFXIV can barely be called an RPG (most FF games are what I'd term 'adventure games' rather than 'role-playing games'). There's no meaningful dialogue options; no meaningful character growth choice; no skill trees or specialties.

That's not to say that the games aren't fun - they are - but it's a far cry from the role-playing options available in true RPGs like Divinity, Deus Ex, or going back further, titles like Baldur's Gate.

[Aylis]

Just to play devil's advocate though, I'd also point out that FFXIV can barely be called an RPG (most FF games are what I'd term 'adventure games' rather than 'role-playing games'). There's no meaningful dialogue options; no meaningful character growth choice; no skill trees or specialties.

That's not to say that the games aren't fun - they are - but it's a far cry from the role-playing options available in true RPGs like Divinity, Deus Ex, or going back further, titles like Baldur's Gate.

I deffo get that completely and to be honest yes I do kinda put adventure games and RPG games for the most part in the same boat and the line between the two gets further blurred each new generation of games. A lot of it I think since you brought up Baldur's Gate has a lot to do with just how drastic the difference between consoles and PC's were at the time. Due to that difference in hardware and tech PC's often wre the source of what I would consider an RPG in terms of character growth, dialogue options and everything in between. The most important part being the ability to make your own story as you saw fit. Granted yes the games had their own story going on, but the freedom on how you tackled it was what made them shine. Want to play nice with the people at an inn? Okay. Want to rob them blind? Okay. Want to get drunk and decide to set off a fireball on the inn keep? Okay, and so on. I do consider games like Baulder's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Icewind Dale and more modern games like The Elder Scrolls series to be where RPG's are at. I could even say Grand Theft Auto is RPG like, just because the freedom of choice on how you take on situations is there. In MMO terms I'd say the closest ones to an RPG that I've played would be SWTOR and GW2 since there was a degree of choices in story situations.

Enter consoles which I feel created a not necessarily right or wrong view of RPG's, just a different one. Since most (at least of those I knew) had a console over a PC just because they were cheaper, more easily available and easy to maintain and quite fun. However due to hardware limitations no way they could cram a world full of infinite choices a player could come up with on a single 8 bit or 16 bit cartridge. They had to make drastic changes to get an RPG game to fit. This is where I agree that most RPG's are adventure games, or more or less the Adventure RPG genre. Games that do have an RPG element in terms of leveling up, getting new abilities and new equipment, interaction with NPC's, and some hidden paths to find. However they're very linear and most of the time spent is just going from point A to point B with no real way to break free and have the story change based on things you do and your choices on interacting with people.

Granted some modern games have gotten better with this and allowing more choices in customizing a games story, but well past experiences and thoughts are hard to change as people get older and are set in their ways.

[Risvertasashi]

That's not to say that the games aren't fun - they are - but it's a far cry from the role-playing options available in true RPGs like Divinity, Deus Ex, or going back further, titles like Baldur's Gate.

A lot of what you call true RPGs... aren't super traditional themselves, and might be called "action RPGs" instead. Of course we could argue over definitions till we're blue in the face, but an elaborate skill tree system isn't particularly integral to the definition and wasn't in quite a few older RPGs.

[Kirsten_Rev]

A lot of what you call true RPGs... aren't super traditional themselves, and might be called "action RPGs" instead. Of course we could argue over definitions till we're blue in the face, but an elaborate skill tree system isn't particularly integral to the definition and wasn't in quite a few older RPGs.

Personally I define them as games in which I have meaningful choice about how to progress through the story, how to grow my character. Those features are the difference, for me, between watching a story play out (most video games), and stepping into the story myself (RPGs). Obviously they're not unique to one genre of game. They're also things that XIV sadly lacks, hence my comment.

Anyway, apologies for taking the thread off-topic. Regardless of what type of game we want to call XIV, my opinion on its combat remains unchanged: it's shallow, predictable, and in dire need of an overhaul. Whether it stays at the same speed or not is of far less relevance to me.

[Aeilyi]

I played an action-combat game for four years before I came to FF14 last December. So, coming into this game, the combat does feel a little slow but I accepted that when I started playing.

The word, "slow," is a little subjective depends on the content you're doing. The speed of the gameplay in Savage and some Extreme raids feels fine and even fun! But if you're doing older and lower level stuff, the combat does feel a bit slow and boring, at least for me. It's one of the reasons why I avoid doing lower level content if possible, and even dread it if the Duty Roulette drops me in one. I'm one of those people who would be happy if the Roulette drops me in Rabanastre instead of Labyrinth of the Ancients. Yet, I've seen people who were happy to get LotA for their roulette because it is fast and easy. So, some people like doing the slower paced content because it's relaxing and that's fine by me.

If you strip FF14 of all of the flashy mechanics, the combat isn't that great and this problem becomes more noticeable in content like Eureka and Diadem. Throw in a ton of mechanics then the combat becomes fun and like a dance.

I think if the GCD was a bit faster then it would feel great, but it won't fix the problem of the combat not feeling too fun in lower level content. I sometimes wished that all of the classes have more oGCDs procs to press at lower levels, which would make the gameplay a bit more interesting. At the same time, I can also see people complaining about not being able to watch Netflix while doing their roullettes. I'm also not a casual player and this question is better answered by casual players because I feel like most of the game is catered towards them. But I think it would be cool if the GCD is a bit faster or if we have more new oGCDs to manage especially at lower levels, at the same time, the bosses have more mechanics thrown in. That would make the gameplay a bit more fun for me xD

[Jonnycbad]

Quicken the GCD and it makes each individual GCD feel less impactful. When you're casting Flare/Deathflare or whatever [insert huge damge GCD] much faster than you are currently, they feel less important than "ive been building up to this huge attack for 30 seconds, time to unleash it!" vs "i can do this move every 10 seconds, no biggie".

[Kirsten_Rev]

What i wanted to ask is if you really think the combat is boring. And what example would you use to describe a fast combat system since it seems i havent experience

I wouldn't say FFXIV's combat is slow, but it is boring - particularly outside of boss encounters.

Mostly, the boring feeling for me arises from the fact that combat is, for the most part, predictable. In fact, it's arguably the most predictable combat I've seen in a game in ages. Boss mechanics? Almost completely predictable. My rotations? Completely predictable. I feel like with most encounters, I can literally scheme them out on paper, in advance, with virtually no 'if X then Y' checks. This is compounded even further when facing non-boss creatures, because they simply aren't a real threat to the player. Just spam your basic AoE or single-target rotation until dead.

To me, a superior system would be dynamic. I want enemies that behave unpredictably, and better yet react to players over time. Isn't that the very definition of AI? Lest we forget, enemies in Half-life - a game that's barely two months from its 20th anniversary - reacted in a more believable fashion than do enemies in FFXIV. SE doesn't seem to have bothered with that piece; they just took the old ATB gauge from FF7, sped it up to a couple of seconds per move, and took away the option to pause when it was your turn. That doesn't make for a very compelling MMO experience.

The speed of combat is, in my opinion, neither here nor there. There are plenty of great combat systems in place in games today, running the gamut from fully real-time to turn-based. First-person shooters and the like are obviously lightning-fast combat. ARPGs like Diablo 3 are extremely fast as well, as is something like Guild Wars 2, to pull an MMO example. On the other end of the spectrum are fully turn-based games like Divinity: Original Sin (or its sequel). FFXIV's predecessor, FFXI, was real-time but very much on the slow end of the spectrum.

The one thing in common for all these games, however, is that combat is dynamic. Whether it's enemies moving or taking cover in a shooter, or a new water surface appearing for you to electrify in Divinity, there's always something about the battlefield forcing the player to think or react. It's the core reason the combat is fun. FFXIV almost entirely lacks this. There's no real variation in commands we execute, and even movement is largely something that becomes pseudo-scripted. Fights in FFXIV are memorized, not strategized - and no adjustment to the speed of combat will alter this fact.

[347SPECTRE]

Who says it can't be both? RPG just means Role Playing Game. Basically a persona living in an imaginary world starting out as whatever, and facing all sorts of trials and tribulations. Peaks of high moments, peaks of low moments. Friends and enemies you make along your way. All leading up to an end goal in the games world. There's no written rule that says RPG must mean poking bad things with a stick once every couple minutes and going to make a snack while waiting for your next stick poking turn is the right way to RPG vs a world where that same character can move as greased lightning. The world, the setup, the story, the situations are what make an RPG an RPG, not the combat. Hence the genre "Action RPG" was born.

Kingdom Hearts easily comes to mind.

[Berethos]

I don't find it slow or boring, but that may be due to my perspective - most of my time is spent as a Bard. Being a proc heavier, priority-based job does change how the combat in this game feels, in my opinion.

[Marxam]

I think a better way to describe the combat is "disconnected". My hits have no physics to them and attacks happen after the aoe circles disappear so you can actually stand in the attack animation as long as you were out of the aoe before it disappeared. Other than that, the combat is decently fast and with certain buffs and certain classes you will be pressing buttons all the time. DRK, NIN, MCH, BRD and AST come to mind.