So, how is Pagos?

[MuseTraveller]

The most telling thought for me is to ponder about how successful Pagos would have been if the Relic wasn't gated behind it.

Spoiler:
Dead on week 2

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Spoiler:
Dead on week 2

To be fair, Pagos is already struggling. Numerous images are being posted of dead or recycled instances. So yeah... without the relic, I dare say you're being a bit generous.

[Nixxe]

To be fair, Pagos is already struggling. Numerous images are being posted of dead or recycled instances. So yeah... without the relic, I dare say you're being a bit generous.

I mean, I kind of wonder if the whole recycled instance thing isn't just another part of killing the train. If instances aren't truly fresh, it makes the trackers a lot less valuable and further obfuscates NM spawning, making it much less useful to specifically target NM spawns instead of just submitting to the will of SE and settling for mob grinding.

[BillyKaplan]

I mean, I kind of wonder if the whole recycled instance thing isn't just another part of killing the train.

At this point I feel like a better design would've been to get rid of the NMs and give you some other ways to get what they're dropping. There's really no reason to leave in a functionality the developers so vehemently oppose.

[Solarra]

At this point I feel like a better design would've been to get rid of the NMs and give you some other ways to get what they're dropping. There's really no reason to leave in a functionality the developers so vehemently oppose.

The problem is the whole design revolves around fates, just like Diadem. We tell the devs we don't really like them but they seem completely stuck on the idea that this is the best way to do open-world content (ok, I know Eureka is instanced but hopefully you get what I mean).
When Anemos came out there was a lot of criticism and suggestions of how Eureka could be improved:
People asked for dailies or something similar to Hamlet Defence - we didn't get them
We asked for treasure-hunting and reasons to explore and what did they give us? The bunny fate...

[BillyKaplan]

The problem is the whole design revolves around fates, just like Diadem.

I didn't run Diadem much but the few times I was in it it was FATE bouncing. And with a party of friends, it was actually fun. That's why Anemos was anywhere between tolerable and fun for a lot of people.
Pagos rejects the concepts of NMs with how the devs went about it. You no longer have the one or two NMs no one can be bothered with spawning while the other NMs get spawned anywhere else (Pazuzu was the only NM in that area I saw being reliably spawned, and I've no idea if that's still the case given you can get his feathers elsewhere now). Instead, you're lucky to see an NM spawn at all. Some NMs seemingly can't be spawned within a single lockout. That's not a design that revolves around FATEs, that's a design that revolves around the mindless grind and occasionally, maybe, gives you an NM for your trouble.

An fc mate of mine who loved the social interactions in Anemos went into Pagos today. Not half an hour later he was out, swearing off the content and reconsidering his sub in one fell swoop. SB has been meh to him so far with Anemos actually being a highlight. Pagos wrecked that.

[Solarra]

Pagos rejects the concepts of NMs with how the devs went about it... you're lucky to see an NM spawn at all.

Point taken.
What I was trying to get at is that Pagos is basically the same design as Anemos only with a severe nerf to the rate of NM spawns introduced as a way of derailing the train. That isn't going to work; take out the NMs (or reduce them as they have) and there's nothing left except grind, which only a very small proportion of players seem to enjoy. If the train was such a bad thing that it had to be countered, then the devs needed to come up with alternative ways for people to play and they haven't done that.

I really can't see what harm the train did personally, it had people playing together and co-operating and it also helped low-level players catch up. It feels to me that the devs are either out of ideas or on such a tight schedule that only minimal tweaks can be made to content after release. Their solution to the train was relatively quick and easy to implement, but it has caused much bigger problems than the one it was meant to solve.

[HyoMinPark]

Spoiler:
Dead on week 2

Well, if we’re talking about Pagos sans the Relic, let’s be honest here: it wouldn’t even last that long. Given the complaints about how unengaging the content is for the vast majority, it would only be successful to a handful of the playerbase who want to relive old MMO mob-chaining grinds. Without the Relic, the majority of players would not touch Eureka with a ten-foot pole. I’m fairly confident in my assessment of that.