Making Warrior's Butcher Block combo relevant

[Kabooa]

Unless we are talking about overhauling the whole threat management system then simply adding an effect on to threat combos doesn't give anyone diversity. Just becomes another button to press at a given time.

Yeah. My entire post history regarding Jobs follows this line of thought.

DPS jobs aren't exactly in a better spot in comparison to other games.

[whiskeybravo]

Just a funny little side story.

Joined a farm party for v8s the other night

See whm creeping up on aggro all throughout Kefka. I think they did actually steal it during one of the first light's (took multiple runs ofc)

Get to God finally. Guess what happens? WHM stealing threat. Every. Pull. Actually tanked the whole phase from 1st forsaken to trine. Couldn't do anything because we had already voke/shirked at celestriad. Even finished BB combo with unchained in my opener.

Lucid boy. Lucid

"I'm using lucid at first forsaken"

But they actually weren't using lucid til Trine...

Needless to say we did not clear.

Threat combos are legit.

[Kabooa]

Nothing makes me sadder than having to do multiple DA Power Slashes.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Nothing makes me sadder than having to do multiple DA Power Slashes.

PLDs "hold my beer" *gets forced to use multiple rage of halones on adds because noone manages enmity*

[Garry]

My point is that the aggro generate abilities should be more interesting outside of generating aggro.

I think when generating aggro is a tight mechanic everyone is having a bad day. Either tank dps suffers or the dpsers themselves have to suffer. Heck even the healers have to struggle the tighter aggro gets.

Where aggro is nowx I think it is a thing that if no one does anything about it is a pretty big problem, but if every ok ne does their job no one has to stress over it.

However, now we have combos that suck for no real reason. It makes playing low level duty feel bad when you are forced to blow the cob webs off old abilities.

As such making the ability compelling out side of the above, just seems like a good way to use what we already have.

The arguments that adding more abilities is more the same I think is alittle bit silly as there are any ways to make these abilities interesting.

The butchers block combo could get a potency buff on a proc from fel cleave/inner beast. For instance, 25% chance that using fel cleave/inner beast will proc chop-chop.

Chop-chop: let's you use butcher block twice following your next skill sunder.

That way its compelling and mixed up an otherwise straight forward rotation. Makes the beast gauge alittle less predictable.

A similar thing can be done with the other tanks threat combos where they can be interesting either as a choice or a tack on to the rotation in favor of what would make each job more compelling.

For instance dark knights TBN instead of just spitting out a mana refund could empower your power flash combo to do alittle more damage and generate mana. Or have it generate blood gauge.

[whiskeybravo]

Chop-chop: let's you use butcher block twice following your next skill sunder.

As if using one threat combo wasn't bad enough.. Have a back-to-back butcher's! Lol

In all seriousness, though, they need to bring back a proc based tank for 5.0. They dumbed everything down this expansion, made tanking more simple. I don't think there's anything wrong with this per se, but I think it'd be better for the community if there was simply more diversity among jobs. Have "easy" jobs and "advanced" jobs to appeal to the very broad base of players that are present in this game, would it truly be that difficult?

[Hierro]

As if using one threat combo wasn't bad enough.. Have a back-to-back butcher's! Lol

In all seriousness, though, they need to bring back a proc based tank for 5.0. They dumbed everything down this expansion, made tanking more simple. I don't think there's anything wrong with this per se, but I think it'd be better for the community if there was simply more diversity among jobs. Have "easy" jobs and "advanced" jobs to appeal to the very broad base of players that are present in this game, would it truly be that difficult?

You can't have "advance jobs" and expect fair balance for all jobs, otherwise people would complain about having the same dps as the easy job, but having to work harder for it.

[whiskeybravo]

You can't have "advance jobs" and expect fair balance for all jobs, otherwise people would complain about having the same dps as the easy job, but having to work harder for it.

But that's not really how things have played out. I don't see many Ninja's complaining because SAM/MNK have higher DPS and are easier to play. And nearly every serious WAR main has complained about how simple WAR is now compared to Deltascape. PLD's have by far the most complex kit remaining, and are now at the bottom of the tank damage statistics - yet there are still many PLDs out there holding it down. Where are the "buff PLD" threads?

So, I have a hard time believing there would be some mass uproar because a "technical" tank (or job in general) outputs the same damage or offers the same utility as a job that's "easier" to play. Worst thing that could happen is no one plays it. Then what? They get buffed until people start playing it and it finds an equilibrium with the other jobs.

[Hierro]

So, I have a hard time believing there would be some mass uproar because a "technical" tank (or job in general) outputs the same damage or offers the same utility as a job that's "easier" to play. Worst thing that could happen is no one plays it. Then what? They get buffed until people start playing it and it finds an equilibrium with the other jobs.

the situation with NIN and PLD are vastly different. Regarding PLD, while it is true their rotation can be considered the most complex, it's not really an accomplishment but more so a "tallest midget" situation. Aside from that, their damage output is more so accurately at second place, being shared with DRK. We're not talking several degrees of complexity nor damage disparity, but even then we're ignoring the obvious thing as to what makes PLD and NIN so desirable: their utility, it's why they're meta.

NINs don't complain because their trick attack gets them into parties. I don't see the same thing for SAM.


An advanced job would have to be a fixed slot kind of class in order to be more technical but somehow worth it, but we know the issues that come with that.

[whiskeybravo]

otherwise people would complain about having the same dps as the easy job, but having to work harder for it.

but even then we're ignoring the obvious thing as to what makes PLD and NIN so desirable: their utility, it's why they're meta.

So which is it? DPS or Utility?

These aren't mutually exclusive. You could have a technical job with slightly higher DPS or utility

I think NIN/PLD fit into the description fine. More is required of them for the party than what's required other jobs, on top of physically having more buttons to press, but that doesn't stop them from being popular or desirable.

But all that is an aside. What I'm suggesting is to add a "technical" tank job, if we are going to call it that, instead of drastically changing the current paradigm. Players should have more options, we don't have to make everything the same watered down mush.