Making Warrior's Butcher Block combo relevant

[Marxam]

I'm not sure how it's irrelevant since I still use butcher's block combo after I held hate. I always BB when I have a fresh SE buff and slashing debuff just too keep the hate as healer aggro, especially in savage raids where healer aggro can creep up fast. O4S is a good example because of all the enmity resets and high aoe healing. BB combo is working as intended and the only time it should get buffed is if SE and SP are buffed as well.

[Hierro]

I'm not sure how it's irrelevant since I still use butcher's block combo after I held hate. I always BB when I have a fresh SE buff and slashing debuff just too keep the hate as healer aggro, especially in savage raids where healer aggro can creep up fast. O4S is a good example because of all the enmity resets and high aoe healing. BB combo is working as intended and the only time it should get buffed is if SE and SP are buffed as well.

It's irrelevant because WARs don't need to use it to hold hate. See, if you did more damage, then perhaps you would generate enough hate to not need BB.

[Marxam]

It's irrelevant because WARs don't need to use it to hold hate. See, if you did more damage, then perhaps you would generate enough hate to not need BB.

That's not the point. I'm saying that even after I have hate I still BB for the extra potency and to not over cap the Beast gauge and it does more dmg. Enmity is so easy in this game that its not even up for debate. I'm simply stating that if you have all your buffs and you had a choice to do either SE or BB combo for 20 beast gauge to cap your meter why wouldn't you choose BB combo (670 potency) over SE combo (640 potency)? This entering min-max territory and only applies to specific people in specific content.

[whiskeybravo]

That's not the point. I'm saying that even after I have hate I still BB for the extra potency and to not over cap the Beast gauge and it does more dmg. Enmity is so easy in this game that its not even up for debate. I'm simply stating that if you have all your buffs and you had a choice to do either SE or BB combo for 20 beast gauge to cap your meter why wouldn't you choose BB combo (670 potency) over SE combo (640 potency)? This entering min-max territory and only applies to specific people in specific content.

Because, as was previously pointed out, you are losing Fell Cleaves down the line when you sub butcher's for path. And you shouldn't be capping on gauge, that's what Onslaught is for. It's not really a gain to use Onslaught on cooldown so you save it for when you are at 80-90 gauge, use it to drop 20 gauge and finish path combo.

[Kabooa]

I think we all know Butcher's Block is avoided if you don't need threat.

But I'm pretty sure the point was to make it so weaponskills hold equal weight to each other, based on the situation. Skill diversity should be the goal, not a stepping stone of what you no longer need. This is the primary issue with the Role System. You simply do not need half of the abilities in that menu across every Role.

A rotating ABC1, ABC2 and ABC3 set up isn't all that more interesting than now, where you just simply cut out of a combo line because threat's binary.

Warrior is currently the only Tank who's interactions take some thought, and that's generally a 'avoid overcap'. Tanks in general could use more interesting interaction, and frankly the Threat combos are the most obvious place you can add this.

[Marxam]

Because, as was previously pointed out, you are losing Fell Cleaves down the line when you sub butcher's for path. And you shouldn't be capping on gauge, that's what Onslaught is for. It's not really a gain to use Onslaught on cooldown so you save it for when you are at 80-90 gauge, use it to drop 20 gauge and finish path combo.

Yes I am aware of that but there are situations where both Upheaval and Onslaught are on cd. In those situations I BB.

[Hierro]

Yes I am aware of that but there are situations where both Upheaval and Onslaught are on cd. In those situations I BB.

It's hilarious you think that's a good thing.

[whiskeybravo]

I think we all know Butcher's Block is avoided if you don't need threat.

But I'm pretty sure the point was to make it so weaponskills hold equal weight to each other, based on the situation. Skill diversity should be the goal, not a stepping stone of what you no longer need. This is the primary issue with the Role System. You simply do not need half of the abilities in that menu across every Role.

A rotating ABC1, ABC2 and ABC3 set up isn't all that more interesting than now, where you just simply cut out of a combo line because threat's binary.

Warrior is currently the only Tank who's interactions take some thought, and that's generally a 'avoid overcap'. Tanks in general could use more interesting interaction, and frankly the Threat combos are the most obvious place you can add this.

But why?

IMO it's much more fun and engaging trying to optimize our damage than it would be trying to optimize our threat. There's no pay-off except being able to say "don't worry, I got it guys". The amount of threat we have to manage now is right were it should be. It's still there and semi-important, but not some cumbersome mechanic we have to micro-manage on top of everything else.

[Kabooa]

But why?

IMO it's much more fun and engaging trying to optimize our damage than it would be trying to optimize our threat. There's no pay-off except being able to say "don't worry, I got it guys". The amount of threat we have to manage now is right were it should be. It's still there and semi-important, but not some cumbersome mechanic we have to micro-manage on top of everything else.

We have different definitions of engaging. I don't find the current paradigm engaging. There's almost no moving parts to the Tank jobs themselves, and basically no considerations to make. The 'engaging' part of damage optimization is tailoring timers to a Boss.

Whoop de doo.

Making Butcher's Block more desirable doesn't stop you from optimizing damage. Giving it something that plays into your Kit only enables you further.

[whiskeybravo]

Faux considerations..

There are considerations to make now if you don't care about things like fflogs. Making threat combos more relevant doesn't do anything, unless it somehow plays into increasing damage. And even then, if you're going for logs you have to play a certain way just like you have to now - your considerations don't matter -you have to play the same way as everyone else, follow the same "rotation" as everyone else. We are back in the same boat.

Unless we are talking about overhauling the whole threat management system then simply adding an effect on to threat combos doesn't give anyone diversity. Just becomes another button to press at a given time.