Making Warrior's Butcher Block combo relevant

[Caduagm]

Yes please... Make warrior even more broken.

[F_Maximillian]

It was like this in HW where the butcher's block combo was actually higher potency than storm's eye/path and it caused some problems. Things are fine as is.

[Garry]

If they were to make the change i listed above to butchers bock it would be to make the rotation more interesting or to give the skills a use not to make them do more DPS or whatever.

Currently emnity doesn't matter and i think thats a good thing. If you make emnity matter than your basicly still a tanky DPS, but a tanky DPS that could potentially slow all the other DPS down if you are under gear or preforming poorly. Making the role a more dramatic effect on a team than pretty much any other role. As even healers bench marks as of current content aren't being able to heal really agressively, but more finding windows where they can optimize thier dps. Plus making emnity matter even more would also unnessarily evelvate classes like ninja, and hinder classes like paladin with the current game in mind.

However, making the emnity combos part of a given rotation or giving them an extra feature would go a decent way to making tanking more interesting.

[whiskeybravo]

However, making the emnity combos part of a given rotation or giving them an extra feature would go a decent way to making tanking more interesting.

I disagree on the basis of job evolution. Butcher's Block (and aggro combo's in general) are needed up to a certain point in the game, until you develop your character further (aka unlock more abilities & gear) and eventually you become a "Master" and things you used early on simply aren't as useful as they used to be. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

Besides, there's nothing really all that interesting with combos to begin with. 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 ad nausea. It doesn't really matter what kind of effects are on the skills, it always boils down to a "this is da wae" rotation and that's that. It's not more or less interesting than before, just buttons you are supposed to press in some recommended order.

[Garry]

Currently none of the tanks want to be using their aggro combo in any fight more than once so why should warrior be any different

currently warriors, dont at all.

I disagree on the basis of job evolution. Butcher's Block (and aggro combo's in general) are needed up to a certain point in the game, until you develop your character further (aka unlock more abilities & gear) and eventually you become a "Master" and things you used early on simply aren't as useful as they used to be. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

Besides, there's nothing really all that interesting with combos to begin with. 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 ad nausea. It doesn't really matter what kind of effects are on the skills, it always boils down to a "this is da wae" rotation and that's that. It's not more or less interesting than before, just buttons you are supposed to press in some recommended order.

sure and thats why this change would make those skill still a useful part of play. I think it's weird that a very few select classes kind of throw thier earlier tools or parts of play in the garbage can as soon as they hit x level. Black mage is a great example where at high levels you throw more than 50% of your skill into a garbage can, and then when you have to play low level dungeons everything feels weird.

[whiskeybravo]

sure and thats why this change would make those skill still a useful part of play. I think it's weird that a very few select classes kind of throw thier earlier tools or parts of play in the garbage can as soon as they hit x level. Black mage is a great example where at high levels you throw more than 50% of your skill into a garbage can, and then when you have to play low level dungeons everything feels weird.

I think you missed the point. It doesn't really matter if you change it, only a matter of time before it becomes part of a mundane rotation of buttons you press at a particular time and you're back in the same boat of it not really being interesting.

It does bring up a point of contention, however. The part about rotations changing as you level, it doesn't bother me personally, but if it was made more consistent it might help in bringing people up to speed when they hit max level. That way you could be practicing end-game rotations while leveling instead of being thrown into a whole new way to play. I think some jobs handled this better than others, but it's worth noting I suppose.

Aggro combos, as the game is currently built, do not need to be part of your dps rotation. Part of what we have is a system of trade offs - mainly trading mitigation and aggro generation for higher DPS. This is actually why tanking is more interesting than other roles, being able to make decisions based on risk/reward that have a major impact on how your group handles an encounter.

And it's not like Butcher's is some forbidden skill. There was plenty of times I had to use it to keep hate from WHM cure bombs during both NeoExdeath and God Kefka prog. It's nice when you need it. Optimal play revolves around not using it, and there's nothing wrong with that because optimal play is in a category of it's own.

[AppleJinx]

Currently none of the tanks want to be using their aggro combo in any fight more than once so why should warrior be any different

[Marxam]

I'm not sure how it's irrelevant since I still use butcher's block combo after I held hate. I always BB when I have a fresh SE buff and slashing debuff just too keep the hate as healer aggro, especially in savage raids where healer aggro can creep up fast. O4S is a good example because of all the enmity resets and high aoe healing. BB combo is working as intended and the only time it should get buffed is if SE and SP are buffed as well.

[Hierro]

I'm not sure how it's irrelevant since I still use butcher's block combo after I held hate. I always BB when I have a fresh SE buff and slashing debuff just too keep the hate as healer aggro, especially in savage raids where healer aggro can creep up fast. O4S is a good example because of all the enmity resets and high aoe healing. BB combo is working as intended and the only time it should get buffed is if SE and SP are buffed as well.

It's irrelevant because WARs don't need to use it to hold hate. See, if you did more damage, then perhaps you would generate enough hate to not need BB.

[Marxam]

It's irrelevant because WARs don't need to use it to hold hate. See, if you did more damage, then perhaps you would generate enough hate to not need BB.

That's not the point. I'm saying that even after I have hate I still BB for the extra potency and to not over cap the Beast gauge and it does more dmg. Enmity is so easy in this game that its not even up for debate. I'm simply stating that if you have all your buffs and you had a choice to do either SE or BB combo for 20 beast gauge to cap your meter why wouldn't you choose BB combo (670 potency) over SE combo (640 potency)? This entering min-max territory and only applies to specific people in specific content.