HoH feedback

[Vnolan]

just because they want everything to be done in 15 minutes or less, personally.

2-3 hours, the time it would still take to do 61-100, is 15 minutes?

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It has me perplexed. If someone suggests something that could save people time, I could see people pointing out why the devs wouldn't do it, but here you have people actually arguing against it, and for no good reason, lol.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'd bet those arguing for no changes haven't really done it. Forget being in a party - even solo is a joke up to 60, but Yoshi-P said the challenging floors start at 30, so you must be making stuff up.
Next EX trial: After every wipe, you need to run a dungeon.

If they add the option to start later and you didn't want to use it, you wouldn't have to. This isn't PVP and there isn't a race. Isn't it a bit much to ask tens of thousands of people to spend hours upon hours doing faceroll content just to do the interesting stuff so...actually, I don't even know why anyone is in favor of it.

Like HyoMin, I have two 100 clears, am working on a third and have wiped at floors 50 (day one, very low aetherpool), floor 76 and 90. So six attempts in content I supposedly "haven't really done."

How is this remotely comparable? The entire purpose of HoH is a gauntlet style system wherein you begin from the bottom up. Allowing players to start from floor 61 eliminates a portion of the risk. Yes, 21-50 are more or less facerolls, but the time commitment inherently makes floors 81+ risky. As I mentioned earlier, wiping to Xande has far less impact if I go back to floor 61. At the point, I've spent maybe an hour and a half tops. Now it's no longer a gauntlet but a mild annoyance.

Most arguments against convenience just boil down to "it's possible to do without this feature so just put up with how things are now". That same argument (appeal to tradition fallacy) can be used against cross realm groups, the duty finder, the raid finder and even the party finder. "If you can't work something out with friends or shout in cities to get a group for a dungeon and can't find the time to walk to the dungeon entrance, you're not even trying." Sounds pretty silly in another context.

Dungeons aren't intended to be gauntlets. Heaven on High is. The only fallacy here is you making a disingenuous comparison between two pieces of content with different design philosophies. What you're essentially saying is, "I want an easier, faster, more convenient route." Okay. Let's say they implement this change except you will not receive an Empyream token and/or the Dodo mount unless you begin from floor 21. Would you still support the change or does your convenience also demand the same rewards too?

It has me perplexed. If someone suggests something that could save people time, I could see people pointing out why the devs wouldn't do it, but here you have people actually arguing against it, and for no good reason, lol.

People have cited plenty of good reasons. You simply refuse to listen.

[Niraye]

did floor 21-100 in 5-6 hours, in one day. (we did a run on Friday (got a necklace) and a run on Sunday (got an earring) ) i see no real issue with it at all, had a lot of fun doing it to.

[Renato]

Feedback (And I stress, this is just my opinion)

As content, I personally don't really care for it. It's basically a dungeon crawler without any real rewards.
Use the original PSO for example, which was also a dungeon crawler and one of my favorite MMOs of it's time. You'd run through the same 4-8 areas with randomized maps, killing monsters, collecting loot and leveling up. Sure it got boring sometimes but sometimes things were sometimes mixed up a bit because you'd get a rare map or special enemy that pops up every once and a while. And in the end, the thing that kept you going was finding that sweet, sweet, weapon or armor that you've been hunting the same enemy or breaking boxes for. It was the driving force behind your motives.

In HoH, it basically removes the rewards aspect because everything you find (for the most part) can't be used outside of the instance. Sure you can obtain a mount, a new hairstyle and a ilv365 that will most likely be phased out by the Eureka weapons but beyond that, there's not much reason for someone to really NEED to keep doing it in my opinion. And when I say need to, I'm saying come next patch or 4.4 I don't think there will be people saying, "Hey, I need to do HoH to get (insert item.)" It literally feels like it is a placeholder SE put in to keep people occupied until the next bit of content is released.

With that said, I think it will be a good way to level alts though, same with PotD. Leveling alts can be a pain sometimes and although both are extremely tedious and can be mind-numbingly boring, it can be a lot quicker to just jump in a PotD/HoH queue (especially if you're a DPS) and run a few floors for a good chunk of exp.

So long story short, It's a great way to earn chunks of exp but I don't feel like it's content that would be a huge draw-in for new or returning players.

[Remedi]

Tbh there's no real need for anything in the game, no rewards from any content is really needed to do anything but ultimate, I would say that the reward structure criticism could be applied to the whole game

[HyoMinPark]

2-3 hours, the time it would still take to do 61-100, is 15 minutes?


It has me perplexed. If someone suggests something that could save people time, I could see people pointing out why the devs wouldn't do it, but here you have people actually arguing against it, and for no good reason, lol.

Do you have any decent reason as to why HoH’s challenge floors should only take 2-3 hours? Aside from “because I want it to”?

[Renato]

Tbh there's no real need for anything in the game, no rewards from any content is really needed to do anything but ultimate, I would say that the reward structure criticism could be applied to the whole game

Very true...which is why I have a love/hate relationship with the game itself. But that's a complaint for a different time.

I mean there are a couple things like the dungeons and savage raids where you have to do them to get certain glamours. I still find myself needing to do older content to grab stuff like that. It's kind of the reason why I appreciate the story dungeons in the game so much. Sure, they get outdated quickly and the weapons and armor are pretty bad stat wise but they get people repeatable content to do as well as rewards tokens for more powerful gear. I ran Skalla over 100+ times to get the tank coat. But I personally like that feeling of finally getting the rare drop you've been looking for.

[Fawkes]

did floor 21-100 in 5-6 hours, in one day. (we did a run on Friday (got a necklace) and a run on Sunday (got an earring) ) i see no real issue with it at all, had a lot of fun doing it to.

I haven't gotten to floor 100 yet, because I haven't had 5-6 hours of spare time and the idea of a slapdash party finder group meeting up more than one day seems unlikely and unfun to set up.

[Vnolan]

The entire purpose of HoH is a gauntlet style system wherein you begin from the bottom up. Allowing players to start from floor 61 eliminates a portion of the risk.

The purpose of the reset, as well as the stinginess with shards, and no KOs in order to do 31+, is to pad content. You have to grind 21-30 over and over if you want potions for solo runs. You've seen what garbage you can get even from higher tiered sacks.

Allowing people to start from 21 eliminates even more risk. I guess that should be removed. Two RDM, a PLD and a healer takes away from the challenge, so let's also not allow certain party comps. While we're on the topic of having people waste time for no reason, let's bring back DoL favors and permadeath in EX trials.

wiping to Xande has far less impact if I go back to floor 61. At the point, I've spent maybe an hour and a half tops. Now it's no longer a gauntlet but a mild annoyance.

Does Xande gain a buff if you wipe? Do you get debuffed if you wipe? 90 mins wasted is a 'mild annoyance'? If 90 minutes is an annoyance, what about a few hours? You admit right there that's all it does - inconvenience you. It doesn't make the boss hit harder or gain mechanics, it doesn't increase the number of patrols or add floor debuffs. It just wastes your time.

Do you have any decent reason as to why HoH’s challenge floors should only take 2-3 hours? Aside from “because I want it to”?

The challenge floors (61+) already take 2-3 hours. "because I want it to" is the reason for most QoL changes, though if it needs to be said, having to spend a few hours to reach the challenge floors before every attempt is poor game design. You already have to locate sacks, finish the floor set and do battle with rng when appraising. Adding a few hours of fluff just to start that grind each time is overkill.

I haven't gotten to floor 100 yet, because I haven't had 5-6 hours of spare time and the idea of a slapdash party finder group meeting up more than one day seems unlikely and unfun to set up.

With all of two save slots.

[HyoMinPark]

The challenge floors (61+) already take 2-3 hours. "because I want it to" is the reason for most QoL changes, though if it needs to be said, having to spend a few hours to reach the challenge floors before every attempt is poor game design. You already have to locate sacks, finish the floor set and do battle with rng when appraising. Adding a few hours of fluff just to start that grind each time is overkill.

Sorry, those don’t really seem like good enough reasons, in my opinion; they all come off as especially flimsy. Especially since Accursed Hoard/Intuition pomanders can be found on the way to the exit (thereby cutting down on the time searching for them; they aren’t guaranteed to be off in Narnia from the exit all the time), and appraisal doesn’t have to take place until after you have already finished the entire run (so it doesn’t extend the duration of your run; you don’t have to appraise between every set of floors). It basically boils down to “I don’t want to do it, so it should not be a thing”. If all game development choices were up to a player’s preference of “I don’t wanna do it”, we’d have a mess of a game.