Sexual harassment

[Rogatum]

Generally speaking my issue is how people are in agreement that a person should seek professional help, yet it is okay for the victim to go to the court of public opinion to place the accused in a position where they have to prove their innocence rather then guilt. Why is seeking professional help the ideal solution for recovery, and the general public is not suited to handle recovery treatment which is true, yet the general public is capable of handling the judgment of another? A few opinions in this thread support witch hunting a person that has yet to be found guilty, or how incapable the proper authorities are when it comes to handling such issues which means that the only solution is to take matters into your own hand more or less as a community. Or how a person is considered a victim blamer because they place some responsibility on the victim. Overall personally does not make much sense to me, but I also do find it hard to empathize with people that I have no personal relation to so that might play a role in my confusion.

[QT_Melon]

A few opinions in this thread support witch hunting a person that has yet to be found guilty, or how incapable the proper authorities are when it comes to handling such issues which means that the only solution is to take matters into your own hand more or less as a community.

Or how a person is considered a victim blamer because they place some responsibility on the victim. .

Rinse lather repeat. We already explained this to you a enough times. You keep bringing it up like no one saw your posts the first time. Trying to figure out if you honestly feel being repetitive makes the point valid or you're being a sea lion at this point.

Second. To address your first point. Both parties could seek help. Does one need to be committed of a crime for others to know or make a decision to associate with said person? If someone swears at you, do you call the police and then wait till one is found guilty? In the case of harassment people are just figuring out whether or not this is behavior they want to be around. Not if something needs to be taken to the cops. The other issue as to whether or not a crime was actually committed is for the courts.

[Rogatum]

Rinse lather repeat. We already explained this to you a enough times. You keep bringing it up like no one saw your posts the first time. Trying to figure out if you honestly feel being repetitive makes the point valid or you're being a sea lion at this point.

Second. To address your first point. Both parties could seek help. Does one need to be committed of a crime for others to know or make a decision to associate with said person? If someone swears at you, do you call the police and then wait till one is found guilty? In the case of harassment people are just figuring out whether or not this is behavior they want to be around. Not if something needs to be taken to the cops. The other issue as to whether or not a crime was actually committed is for the courts.

Their is a difference between not associating with someone and actively trying to run their name through the mud, seeking as many outside parties to black list and shame the person for something they may or may not have done. Secondly, the first part was aimed towards more so the person above me since I am simply answering why I started posting in the thread, just forgot to quote the person. I was not aimed towards you. That is my issue and concern, how easily people understand that the generally public does not have the information to capable to handle recovery of abuse and harassment, but they are capable of using used as a means to potentially ruin another persons life before they have been convicted of any crime.

Overall I have no issues with those that handle it behind closed doors, but those that bring the information to the public seeking community support as this thread has shown if you do not fall in line with what the victim claims to be true then you are considered a victim blamer and part of the problem. Also yes you have explained it many times, but I still do not see how trying to publicly shame a person is the best coarse of action, I do believe certain things should be handled outside of the public eye until everything can be confirmed since just as the general public are not trained to handle treatment, I do feel the general public is also not capable of looking past their emotional bias and look at all the information in an objective matter.

Realistically speaking if a person was to remain friends with someone that was accused of sexual harassment or any form of abuse and reserves judgment until more information and or is proven guilty would the community that has blacklisted or shamed the accused think all that highly of a person that remains friends with the person until all the facts are present? I can tell you from experience they really do not. For the most part you are considered scum for associating with the person. I do understand that in the legal sense a great deal of these issues are extremely hard to prove thus putting those that have to deal with it in a tough spot, but does that make it right to run someone else out based off the words of another? That is what a few people in this thread support and that scares me.

I do find it funny how you refer to me as a sea lion, since I doubt that is a complement, what if I personally could not handled such a comment. While I do not understand your opinion or even agree with it, does not make it any less valid.

Always nice to see my hilarious teenage stupidity come back to haunt me 14 or so years later.

That is nothing like this - unless you count the vile, vile messages I fielded for months after the event, and simply blocking people (and hitting block cap within the first ten minutes) didn't stop those messages from happening. Please don't try to lessen someone's struggle just because you don't understand. In the two weeks following my return to Gedran posting that, I had over two thousand exceptionally crude, sexual, and downright threatening whispers to deal with. Some enterprising individuals did not just find out the name of my alts, they found out my e-mail addresses and even my physical home address. They found out my phone number, they found out my school(s). I had kids and teachers at school who knew about the event. I had several communities, forums that I just RP'd on, and chatrooms that knew. That event spread across the internet and even into the real world like wild-fire. There was no getting away from it, and once it hit the real world, absolutely no blocking people.

Sometimes, 'just block and move on' is impossible. Stop telling people to sit down and shut up when they feel uncomfortable, it's archaic behavior that shouldn't have a place in any community worth being a part of. While everyone's threshold for tolerance is different, when people cross into the lines of what sexual harassment (or harassment at all), they should be held accountable if the victim chooses to outcry.

If you don't feel harassed, that's great! I, personally, have a pretty high tolerance (especially after the aforementioned event) and it takes a lot to make me uncomfortable, especially given my hobbies. That doesn't mean that someone else who is harassed by definition has to be okay with it.

Not going to lie I did get many laughs out of the story when I saw it featured in video. For what it is worth it does suck people kept bothering over something no one else was meant to see.

[Alleo]

Generally speaking my issue is how people are in agreement that a person should seek professional help, yet it is okay for the victim to go to the court of public opinion to place the accused in a position where they have to prove their innocence rather then guilt. .

Maybe to warn other people so that nobody else will get hurt by this person anymore? If he is so innocent why not prove it? The online magazine talked to him too and yet he did not feel the need to prove his innocence eventhough he said that he could. Why? If I am truly innocent and somehow over a dozen of other people tell lies about me, I would do my best to prove them as guilty. Yet somehow he posted a screenshot later that blacked out the sentences that the other woman posted and again later he posted "evidence" on some kind of blog (which kinda makes it look like he wrote that post himself) that only showed something while the person was still under his influence. (I mean I am not saying that every victim always behaved like an angel) Also he went against their wishes to remain hidden and called some of them with their names. Did some victims behave badly too? Yes probably, but for someone that sees himself as innocent he surely does not behave that way. Also why should people even believe his screenshots, if they can be changed that much too? Who is to say that any of his sources are not just written by him? Isnt it just strange that he took down his social media, gave the magazine away and said that he would step down, dont post any evidence when it was still fresh...and days later suddenly there is "evidence" that are either blacked out screenshots or computer written messages and he took the magazine back and deleted a few tweets about this..

I am not going to post about your other points because I gave enough examples why its better that victims in such cases have professional help.

[Rogatum]

Maybe to warn other people so that nobody else will get hurt by this person anymore? If he is so innocent why not prove it? The online magazine talked to him too and yet he did not feel the need to prove his innocence eventhough he said that he could. Why? If I am truly innocent and somehow over a dozen of other people tell lies about me, I would do my best to prove them as guilty. Yet somehow he posted a screenshot later that blacked out the sentences that the other woman posted and again later he posted "evidence" on some kind of blog (which kinda makes it look like he wrote that post himself) that only showed something while the person was still under his influence. (I mean I am not saying that every victim always behaved like an angel) Also he went against their wishes to remain hidden and called some of them with their names. Did some victims behave badly too? Yes probably, but for someone that sees himself as innocent he surely does not behave that way. Also why should people even believe his screenshots, if they can be changed that much too? Who is to say that any of his sources are not just written by him? Isnt it just strange that he took down his social media, gave the magazine away and said that he would step down, dont post any evidence when it was still fresh...and days later suddenly there is "evidence" that are either blacked out screenshots or computer written messages and he took the magazine back and deleted a few tweets about this..

I am not going to post about your other points because I gave enough examples why its better that victims in such cases have professional help.

I do agree they should seek professional help, never denied that. My issue with a lot of these cases the so called evidence does leave a lot of unanswered questions yet people look at you like you are crazy if you reserve making passing judgment until more information is shown. No where did I state that they should believe the accused over the accuser, I think both sides should be taken with a grain of salt something official comes from it. Just as you do not feel that the public is equipped to offer treatment (which I do agree with) I do not think the public is equipped to understand the situation and pass judgement based solely off accusations.

In regard to this case, do I think his behavior strange? Yes I do, but to a degree also understandable since I am not sure if the person in question sought legal counsel and what advice said counsel gave him. At the moment all we have is conjecture, I just personally think it is strange to come up with a conclusion based off conjecture.

Either way beyond that it does seem unfair to refer to people as scum because they place some blame of the victim, or when your default reaction is how do we know which side is telling the truth. It is as if a line has been drawn and if do not pick a the "right" side from the start you in a rough spot. It should not be a matter of burning the bridge as you cross it, sure minds can be changed, but often the damage is already done. One thing that we can objectively see though are the actions of victim, so depending on what they did yes I would place some blame on them depending on what was done or not done. That is the person I am, I believe we are responsible for our own actions. As others have mentioned I also do stand by what we learn from our mistakes is often the only take away one gets from such ordeals. As an outside party with no professional experience only thing I can do for the victim is treat them the way I feel I would like to be treated if I found myself in that situation.

Which often gets turned into a huge mess because in that situation my actions are held to a certain standard, yet the same standard is not held for those that are accused. That is the reason why I brought up the professional help when it comes to treatment, yet that seems to put on the back burner when it comes to the accusations themselves. At that point it seems everyone becomes an expert. Hope what I am trying to say makes sense.

[ShadowHunterrX]

It's hard to tell and you can only tell case by case.

As a false accused myself it's hard to fight back once you are in that position. Only thing I did was rejecting her. My only luck was that I had the whole Whatsapp converstation on my phone and the female had a very very edited version posted. I lost alot of friends because her revanche actions. If i didnt have to, i would also deleted everything to shut up people and go on with my life.

It's hard these times to what is truth or not and way to easy grabbing a torch to burn someone.

[QT_Melon]

In regard to this case, do I think his behavior strange? Yes I do, but to a degree also understandable since I am not sure if the person in question sought legal counsel and what advice said counsel gave him. At the moment all we have is conjecture, I just personally think it is strange to come up with a conclusion based off conjecture.

Strange...

So graphically telling someone what you want to do with older women in a sexual manner while working on a volunteer media publication is strange.

Telling someone to leave their SO because they're trash and to start a relationship with him instead is strange.

Getting called a whore or slut, whenever upset is ...strange

Ok, guess should change it to "Strange behavior" and not call a spade a spade.

It's hard to tell and you can only tell case by case.

As a false accused myself it's hard to fight back once you are in that position. Only thing I did was rejecting her. My only luck was that I had the whole Whatsapp converstation on my phone and the female had a very very edited version posted. I lost alot of friends because her revanche actions. If i didnt have to, i would also deleted everything to shut up people and go on with my life.

It's hard these times to what is truth or not and way to easy grabbing a torch to burn someone.

Absolutely agree. Had to help out a friend or two that also had the same position. Most of those cases (the ones I was involved in) were usually one person he said/she said type of situation. One case was a he said/he said. I get people's reservation in judgement, as well. It's something as you can see that can destroy a lot of friendships. Also in the cases I am talking about both sides felt remorse. Usually the worst cases aren't so straight forward either. However, these are usually exceptions and rarer against ones that are true. So again I agree about not being too hasty, but I'm not gonna also pretend that it's just "jealous people" that a lot go unreported because many don't want to rock the boat either.

[Rogatum]

Strange... So graphically telling someone what you want to do with older women in a sexual manner while working on a volunteer media publication is strange.

Telling someone to leave their SO because they're trash and to start a relationship with him instead is strange.

Getting called a whore or slut, whenever upset is ...strange

Ok, guess should change it to "Strange behavior" and not call a spade a spade.



Absolutely agree. Had to help out a friend or two that also had the same position. Most of those cases (the ones I was involved in) were usually one person he said/she said type of situation. One case was a he said/he said. I get people's reservation in judgement, as well. It's something as you can see that can destroy a lot of friendships. Also in the cases I am talking about both sides felt remorse. Usually the worst cases aren't so straight forward either. However, these are usually exceptions and rarer against ones that are true. So again I agree about not being too hasty, but I'm not gonna also pretend that it's just "jealous people" that a lot go unreported because many don't want to rock the boat either.

If I am not mistaken didn't one or two of the victims make the claim that they would seek legal action. So I will wait until then and let those who are smarter, trained, and have more experience handle this before I pass judgment. When an action can ruin someones life all together I do think waiting for things to play out on either side is the best course. While that information is being reviewed by those that are trained to handle such cases, the person that feels they were a victim of abuse or harassment should also seek professional help to aid with the healing processes. It just makes little sense to me why one one side of the story gets released to the general public and one side is enough to be 100% for the general public that it is fact.

False accusations often burn bridges forever, and no amount of treatment or help will ever been enough to recover from that. Though treatment and help can be often lead to recovery for those who are victim of abuse or harassment. A lot of time until the person has proven their innocence they have hardly anyone on their side. Understand I am saying that the person did nothing or that all the alleged victims are lying, but that is just it at this point at this point everything is alleged.

I am not saying that we should deny a person help because until all the facts are present, they should get all the help they need if they felt they were a abused or harassed in any shape or form, and those claims should be taken seriously, since I am will 100% agree that they personally could have felt abused or harassed. The judgement aspect personally I think should be handled by those that are trained, just like the medical aspect.

Yes, for the Doxxing along with the harassment. Not just because he said "STRAAAAAANGE THINGS"

Are you okay? At this point coupled with the sea lion comment I cannot help but feel you are mocking me.

Are you okay? You didn't actually look up the information, just guessing here? You decided to go with "1 or 2" yet ignore the fact we're talking about not only the dozens of Janes complaining about sexual harassment it's now downplayed to "strange" It can be very well read you are mocking the issue.

All I am saying just as their are professionals that deal with treatment, they have professionals that are meant to handle the appropriate behavior. General public is not equipped with the knowledge or experience to make proper judgments when it comes to these cases.

*sigh* And the circle continues. I'm just gonna say this and I'm out: We Are Not The Law. Square-Enix Is Not The Law. And probably the most important thing of all: THE MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA ARE NOT THE LAW! If you find yourself party to someone's inappropriate behavior DO NOT post it on social media first. GO TO THE AUTHORITIES. It is not our responsibility to persecute or prosecute anyone for their behavior. If there is someone conducting inappropriate behavior then follow the steps in game to report them. If the behavior exists outside of the game, then the person affected needs to contact the proper authorities. To anyone who thinks everyone accused of something needs to be dragged into the Court of Public Opinion to be shamed: y'all need to take a step back and think about if it were you in that situation. None of this should be made public and should be handled behind closed doors between all parties involved. None of this bickering is solving anything. If you want to raise awareness for online harassment then do that by listing things to look out for and the steps to take to avoid them. Even sharing your own stories and how you overcame your adversity can go a long way to helping someone. Instead of arguing like children try to do something productive with this post.

Thank you that is what I have been trying to say but could not.

Sorry met my daily post count:

[QT_Melon]

If I am not mistaken didn't one or two of the victims make the claim that they would seek legal action. .

Yes, for the Doxxing along with the harassment. Not just because he said "STRAAAAAANGE THINGS"

Are you okay? At this point coupled with the sea lion comment I cannot help but feel you are mocking me.

Are you okay? You didn't actually look up the information, just guessing here? You decided to go with "1 or 2" yet ignore the fact we're talking about not only the dozens of Janes complaining about sexual harassment it's now downplayed to "strange" It can be very well read you are mocking the issue.