Sexual harassment

[Tiaque]

I had my character followed and stalked by a few girls in the past. Got to a point I started wearing a full enclosed helmet. Then FC members and raid static would always ask what I looked like under the helmet.

Eventually I just learned to ignore the stalkers. They wanna parade around in bikinis following me as I do overworld stuff and do embrace and blowkiss emotes its fine. I pretend its just the wind playing tricks.

[AriaFairchild]

Assumption. Again, subjective depending on case. You're generalizing. Not all victims will be blind to their own mistakes and need someone on the outside to enlighten them.

Yea, but you never know until you touch upon it with them tho, or they take the initiative to tell you. We can't read minds.

Also, the part you quoted is part of a conjunction, it's all dandy and good if you smother them with love and they understand what they've done. What's not ok is that you smother them with love AND they don't understand that they've done something wrong.

[BillyKaplan]

Yea, but you never know until you touch upon it with them tho, or they take the initiative to tell you. We can't read minds.

No, we can't read minds, but the question then becomes how do you approach the subject given this limitation. Do you show a modicum of sensitivity, or do you just bulldoze in on there and use that as an excuse? Hopefully, if you approach a victim of assault in this context, you have some familiarity with them, so while you don't know for sure, you have a good grasp of where to go based on past experience. Alternatively, you're a trained professional who will also know what to do in case you step on a landmine.
What you just said can come off as "well SOME of them MIGHT need to hear it, so let's just tell EVERYONE", which is a bad approach. This thread has deteriorated into absolutes.

Also, the part you quoted is part of a conjunction, it's all dandy and good if you smother them with love and they understand what they've done. What's not ok is that you smother them with love AND they don't understand that they've done something wrong.

And we all agree, so I don't see why you brought it up. What I'm trying to get across is that there's a time and place for that sort of thing, and bringing it up in the wrong way in the wrong time can sooner hurt the victim farther rather than help them recover. Mind you, that is not the same thing as 'never talk to them about lessons they can learn from this'. Again, falling back to absolutes.

[Alleo]

Something we all seem to agree on?



Alleo didn't say not to criticize, nor did they say to neglect retrospection. They're stressing the need to take into consideration the timing.



But is the victim in a state of mind where they can understand that? Or is it too soon in their healing progress, that it will be taken the wrong way? That's also something to take into consideration that doesn't negate either approach.

Thats exactly my point thank you. I am not saying that people should never talk about this but that depending on the person it could be bad to do this right afterwards. Some need time to work it out themselves and I am quite sure that most of them also understand what happened. And if someone talks about something that might be traumatic this should be done with professional help, because wrong words can just make it even worse.

Also who has the right to talk to them? Parents that might not have had much to do with their child thus does not even know them that good? Friends? Siblings? So if someone comes to you and want advise, fine give it to them but if they only talk about what happened, listen first and maybe just only do that. Because not everyone needs advice right now. (Was a great tip of my own therapist. If its a complicated topic ask them if you can give them your opinion or help and only when they say yes, give it to them.)

Just one example: Once I was waiting for another meeting and an old woman was sitting with me. She started to attack me verbally for no reason at all and started to repeat questions. (Telling me how I was doing so wrong by being here that late) I realized that she might have Alzheimer and later when I talked to my therapist, he said that she did but after I told him what happened (that did not affect me because I knew that there must be something wrong with her) he said that she wont be allowed to come here again. Because not everyone of his patients is like me and understands that her words are not true and might fall back in their progression. That is how unstable people can be depending on their mental health.

And we know that quite some of the victims also suffered from depression and things like that. So yes normally people might not take critisim or talk negatively but what if they do? What if they are right now so unstable that they start to blame themselves? Believing that it was somehow their fault even if you didnt mean it that way? Suddenly the mental health is even worse.

I think that someone that suffered from this should get professional help and then if they are stable enough and want to talk about it, you can still do it, but now with someone that can take it the right way. (And I know what I am talking about. If you are over something and look back you can be surprised about yourself too. Surprised how easily someone was able to get you highly emotional and in a paniced state)

Again, I am not saying that everyone is like that but to be cautious by saying that one should always do this and that. Sometimes or maybe even often, you need careful hands to catch them and then if they are standing again you can talk about this.

[AriaFairchild]

And we all agree, so I don't see why you brought it up. What I'm trying to get across is that there's a time and place for that sort of thing, and bringing it up in the wrong way in the wrong time can sooner hurt the victim farther rather than help them recover. Mind you, that is not the same thing as 'never talk to them about lessons they can learn from this'. Again, falling back to absolutes.

Ah, what I failed to understand is that you said Moro was assuming and generalizing when they did no such thing. They were giving a very specific situation that requires 2 conditions to be met, under a hypothetical question ("if"):

1. everyone just smothers them with love and affection
2. they don't understand that they've done something wrong

[QT_Melon]

So knowing this thread was prompted by a very publicated incident. I actually went around seeing the info posted by all those involved (note, not just the blogs and twitter). Wow. It shows how myopic a lot of this advice people in this thread are giving. This isn't about the easily identifiable predator that flashes his junk and runs off to find another victim. Maybe an online comparison, isn't some random after losing the pony sends some message about some girl's privates to the winner of the mount.

This is about people who formed friendships with each other. Maybe people didn't see those posts but even the defenders of the accused are torn by this...ie his friends They don't want to see both sides tearing at each other. They even show things like remorse, real remorse. I don't think many involved really don't know how to deal with it, because it's likely most of them got the "well just block and move on" or "you shouldn't have done that in the first place" generic advice you'd get in a fortune cookie.

So I agree there has to be more to the discussion than sitting on those types of positions.

On the note about witnessing more dialog from the incident that prompted this thread. One thing I did notice is that again, for the most part the parties from opposing sides (save one person), that have publicly spoken out (in areas where other people can read). Have shown remorse. The victims have shown a lot of regret in certain parts of their actions and have blamed themselves. Others are showing remorse because it may mean attacking another friend (whether for or against). Some have stated it might mean taking down people they feel are being used. They also have mentioned they have sought therapy to deal with accountability.

Not all the victims are friends with each other, they are at odds with a lot of things the others have done in the past - they do agree however, that the behavior of the accused needs to be called out and stopped. It damaged their community, and is still damaging their community. So despite being at odds with each other, some came forward as anonymous. Others haven't gone on the blogs, but have spoken out about similar problems from the accused.

The only person I haven't really seen real remorse in rebuttals or statements, is the accused. Nothing about seeking help himself.

I mean, he did apologize at first, but then retracted...it was about some kind of blog war about tearing the other down - with no remorse.

I think the overall situation is sad especially how eye opening it was to see two parties at odds (friends of the accuser, and victims and friends) admit some sympathy and remorse in all of this, yet people want to stick to the bland and useless advice of "block and move on" or "don't share private photos"....especially since I have no doubt other small/large circles might have similar issues.

[Miyha]

The only person I haven't really seen real remorse in rebuttals or statements, is the accused. Nothing about seeking help himself.

I mean, he did apologize at first, but then retracted...it was about some kind of blog war about tearing the other down - with no remorse.

This whole post is golden and you are a saint.

I wanted to address this part in particular though because it relates to my own experience.

This guy doesn't feel remorse. Just like my abuser, they both have a certain classification in common: they are sociopaths. If you look up the diagnostic criteria of sociopathy, it practically describes every aspect of these people to the dot.

My abuser apologized vehemently and tried to make good with the community after I shared my story. (After all, if everyone knew how scummy he was, he wouldn't get anyone to fall for his ruse anymore.)

Over two years later, he had the GALL to the email me (I cut off everything else but didn't think he'd have my email) and say, "Hey doll, how are you doing?"

Luckily this was after my recovery, so I had the presence of mind to brush it off, delete the email, and blacklist his email without a word back to him. I refuse to give him the satisfaction.

But yeah, these people are flat out disgusting predators. They feel no remorse, and they will continue to victimize and feed on the vulnerable. People who say "well you shouldn't have shared photos", "block and move on", and "lol drama" without a modicum of sympathy are, for all intents and purposes, victim blamers, and are hardly any better than the abusers themselves. Y'all are genuinely abhorrent specimens of humanity.

[QT_Melon]

But yeah, these people are flat out disgusting predators. They feel no remorse, and they will continue to victimize and feed on the vulnerable. People who say "well you shouldn't have shared photos", "block and move on", and "lol drama" without a modicum of sympathy are, for all intents and purposes, victim blamers, and are hardly any better than the abusers themselves. Y'all are genuinely abhorrent specimens of humanity.

To be fair a lot of the crowd only gets some of the information, and doesn't really go in depth in finding out what was going on. I mean that's my frustration with the whole thing. In generalized terms, their advice is okay, but it's like "Remember kids, don't talk to strangers" refusing to think outside the box. A teacher is a stranger too, by that regard...but eventually they become something more - your mentor or advisor. It's harder when it's someone you care about or respect, others respect or care about.

Online interaction has become a big part of our lives, we talk to relatives, and other people now where we wouldn't have if technology hasn't improved to make it easier to do so, and I think thus we need to improve our ways of thinking about those interactions. I get how the internet is an escape and some degree of privacy should be given to us for that...and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend I have all the answers either. I just know this isn't some cut and dry or superficial "Jerry's (Springer) final thoughts".

[Zsolen]

It's not hard at all. I've done it plenty of times. Yes, even when I was younger. You don't send a mentor nudes of yourself.

[Okamimaru]

Forget about yourselves for a moment... how you'd respond in a situation like this doesn't matter... if you're strong and aware and stable enough to protect yourself good for you... think instead of the weak, damaged, lost, lonely, and those of not sound mind and reason... what kind of community are we if we are so willing to cast aside those who can't help themselves simply because we don't have those same weaknesses?