Sexual harassment

[Solarra]

@ Nephthys
I don't think we are going to stop it. I'm being realistic here, it is going to happen. So accepting this, I think it's only practical to look at ways we can minimise the damage.
Just raising awareness is useful I think. The more people know about how harassers operate the easier it is not to be taken in, either as a victim or as a bystander they might turn to for support if someone is brave enough to call them out on their behaviour. It's very common for harassers to try and make out they are the one being wronged, as seems to be happening in TMP case.

You're also right about the tools I proposed giving people to help deal with harassment if it happens to them in FFXIV, they are simply general QoL improvements. So if Square takes notice and implements them, everyone wins.

[Clover_Blake]

Luckily in my case, I play several female characters, some of them are even prone to show some skin, yet I've never been harassed. Or I don't think I have. This game has always felt quite safe for me.

[QT_Melon]

If people think SE can't do much, then they are incorrect. It's just how much can SE invest in ways of helping. It's not unusual for workplaces to have counseling or a way to offer counseling to employees. I think the same can go for victims. Keep in mind I do not think the GMs are qualified to handle everything, but they are the first line of defense if someone does actually go to them. I think if SE has a special task force of employees that are trained with how to handle people that have to deal with harassment and know how to defer victims to outreach programs - it can go a long way.

The thing is you can only go so far with the "Preventative measures" rhetoric. It's a matter of what SE can do if they encounter a problem of a victim coming forth. They don't have to get overly involved, but at having the tact and knowledgebase to help point a person in the right direction (a hotline, outreach program) will help a lot to show good faith.

[MoroMurasaki]

Valid points all across the bow so to speak....but this detracts from the heart of the issue.
You speak of Quality of Life features that honestly are needed.
But these features are for a broad-spectrum of reasons...not just Sexual Harassment.
SE could implement them all they way....still won't stop it.

It starts with people....those who give it..and those who...well are victimized by it. If the victims don't step up and bother to say anything. Nothing happens.
And likewise - false accusations ALSO hurt people. This is why I do not like this thread-naught..save but a few posts such as yours.
Easily caught up in a flame/drama/troll fest.

Again...I'd love those features to be implemented....but they are "in a different zip code" - that just happens to coincidentally help the problem..but it won't solve it. People always find a way....sad truth anymore.

I don't think the solutions suggested by Solarra are meant as a way to end all abuse and harassment, such a view would be incredibly shortsighted and childish.

We don't operate in a world of absolutes. As Sebazy said pages ago now people need to take up the responsibility of their own safety and protection. If this can happen easier in game (like with the tools suggested) it's one less avenue for such behavior to slip through. I think everyone would agree it's easier to make a new discord than a new character.

We are never going to completely halt abuse and harrassment. As a community we can't even honestly agree on proper definitions of those words. I still think giving the victims of real harrassment additional avenues to limit the access of their agressors to their life can only be a good thing, though.

Luckily in my case, I play several female characters, some of them are even prone to show some skin, yet I've never been harassed. Or I don't think I have. This game has always felt quite safe for me.

I learned in my last MMO that people tend to associate female characters "showing skin" with male players of said characters. I can honestly say I get more wink-wink-nudge-nudge-type comments from people while wearing my Ala Mhigan Gown than I ever do in a bikini, probably because when I wear a bikini people assume I'm a teenage boy.

[QT_Melon]

... When the 18 year old came forward about being harassed. She confessed that he yelled at her if she had any interaction with other male players. She then confided that he would threaten to kill himself if she left him and said he do so by killing himself by burning down and entire building. She was scared.


The FC leader then instructed the girl to do the right thing, by blocking him through all her outlets that she communicates with him. The FC leader would go with other members and discuss this matter to remove him from their guild. At least that was the start of things...sounds like good advice going on there, and people were taking the steps that many people in the thread advised.

The next day, everything changed. Apparently another female friend had come forward to convince the girl to unblock him. Another male member and friend of the guild didn't care. At this point the leader felt powerless to do anything and left the FC.

So... learning that, what exactly were people supposed to do? The 18 year old victim was groomed at that point, other members were grooming her so he could prey on her further. If your own comrades in the FC basically convince you that a guy who threatened suicide over you was in the right, and you were being "Dramatic" how exactly do you think they would convince themselves to call the police - or contact a GM (which a lot of people in this thread are stating). She did block him, then everyone else basically marked her as being the dramatic one and told her to UNBLOCK him.

People she trusted and looked up to convinced her to do otherwise.

What a mess :/

[Zsolen]

When I was 18, I would not have listened to them. I was certainly old enough to understand what was going on. She knew he needed to be blocked. You don't make decisions, based on social status.

FC leader should have kicked whoever was needed to be kicked, rather than leave. Barring that the 18 year old should have left the FC. You shouldn't want to be in a FC that doesn't have your back. We all had 'friends' that weren't really friends. You drop them like a bad habit, no matter how much time you spent together.

[sakkito]

I am on mobile. Dunno how to edit post here so in worst case scenario I will split it in two. I got more comments and emotes from people as a miquote and au ra. I usually keep to my fc but not responding feels rude so I usually wave at a person and walk away to closest summoning bell to look busy. Most often I am left alone at that point. The most I got as a lala was a pet. I had more experience with people starting dramas in fc. Once I had been close to calling a situation a harassment but I had resolved it and then left fc.

[sakkito]

On that note yes block and report doesn’t always work. Cutting these situations from the start usually works best though. Problem is that most of us wants to use mmo as a social platform as well to make friends (point of mmo) but other people use it to vent their um urges. What happened there (the article yada yada yada) was disgusting. People abusing power and guilt tripping others to satisfy normally unwelcome needs is just wrong. Besides religiously reporting and making things known there is really not much person can do though.

[Abelfei]

Quit nit picking and taking things out of context. Man, you are one for attention.

That's not what he said. Please read.

Thank you, Kerwin. I didn't say that all.

[Rubiss]

God you are even reading? I think your problem here is you never experienced something so intense. You never had a strong, deep relationship. Or you never trusted someone or put yourself in a vulnerable situation. Which is really sad cause you dont know how love feels.

You repeat and repeat like a parrot, that is victim fault. People can manipulate and use you and your feels to the point some people commit suicide. Then what, that is no abuse either? Turning the power off wont erase your relationship with that person or what you did with them (sexting, nudes, etc).

You can say is the victim fault. However I think they have enough shame and self hurt themselves for you to add more to the fire.
You can say its stupid they did that. Well yeah it is. But they didnt apply logic but feels. Now are you going to tell me you NEVER acted based on feels or did stupid things? Idk if you are a robot ,an AI or havent a pinch of sensitivity. But human beings need love and affection. And if someone take advantage of you using your needs...Well i think it shouldnt be defended like you did.
I think you lack a lot of experience. Go out and get some before shaming victims

You know nothing about me. Neither my gender nor what I've been through, who I've been with and at what level. You're making a lot of assumptions to support your argument, kid. You are in control of what you do online. Sexting, sending nudes, giving out your address, arranging offline meetups, that's you. Can you get blackmailed? Sure. But what do you want FFXIV to do? This is an MMORPG. Do you want the "abuser" banned? Okay. Then what? They can just make alts and keep harassing you. Right? Right? Right? So do you want them arrested? Okay. Not a FFXIV problem. Call the police then. It's up to you the "victim" to handle this. You were manipulated, you deal with it. I've been there before and I think individuals love calling themselves victim but often don't do much to prevent themselves from being manipulated nor go to much lengths to solve it.

It's your problem. The very best SquareEnix can do is ban them. Everything else is up to you and it's ultimately your problem.