Duty Recorder Forgotten?

[RiyahArp]

Players like have little desire to better themselves and simply want a hand out. This is why they whine over how difficult Shinryu or Tsukiyomi normal were

Both were difficult compared to previous trials, and both had a lot of people leave them as soon as they showed up in trials roulette. Shin is really only ok now that we outgear it by 80 levels. Tsuku specifically is a noob killer, because of the last phase and the rather wonky mechanics stacked quickly together. Tsuku also is a huge healer check, more than any other job; it's unfair, especially compared to tanking it. A lot of people will leave a trial roulette if it wipes once, especially tanks; I've had to switch to one just so they wouldn't wait forever for a replacement.

It's not really fair to complain about it being a handout; if you had to stay in a full lockout or vote abandon on either of those trials at launch, that's what led to complaints.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Both were difficult compared to previous trials, and both had a lot of people leave them as soon as they showed up in trials roulette. Shin is really only ok now that we outgear it by 80 levels. Tsuku specifically is a noob killer, because of the last phase and the rather wonky mechanics stacked quickly together. Tsuku also is a huge healer check, more than any other job; it's unfair, especially compared to tanking it. A lot of people will leave a trial roulette if it wipes once, especially tanks; I've had to switch to one just so they wouldn't wait forever for a replacement.

It's not really fair to complain about it being a handout; if you had to stay in a full lockout or vote abandon on either of those trials at launch, that's what led to complaints.

Shinryu was fine even at release. People simply suck, and refuse to actually better themselves. I came across some myself. My first attempt back at Stormblood's launch was with a WAR who died to every single Tidal Wave and promptly whined "I'm just trying to have fun" when both bothers, who attempted to explain mechanics in between his chain pulling, finally got fed up. This is what happens when content is so laughably easy then abruptly jumps in difficulty. You get idiots like this aforementioned WAR or players too lazy to actually learn. Calling Tsukiyomi a healer check is ridiculous, sorry. I have tanked, healed and DPS her—in Trial Roulette. And it's never been an issue outside day one, when people were still learning.

People complain because they're bad and want everything made easy.

[RiyahArp]

People complain because they're bad and want everything made easy.

You know, if someone does savage, of course trials are going to seem easy to them, because they've had all the mechanics drilled into their heads. Surprisingly though, there are a lot of people who don't do that, and they actually tend to struggle with it. Surprising, eh? I mean, wtf are you even a judge of it, you do ultimate. What is going to seem hard to you then?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You know, if someone does savage, of course trials are going to seem easy to them, because they've had all the mechanics drilled into their heads. Surprisingly though, there are a lot of people who don't do that, and they actually tend to struggle with it. Surprising, eh? I mean, wtf are you even a judge of it, you do ultimate. What is going to seem hard to you then?

You think I only play with Ultimate raiders? I have plenty of friends who either never step foot in Savage or have only cleared the first two. They share the same opinion on both Shinryu and Tsukiyomi. Furthermore, I didn't learn those mechanics overnight nor did they come from Savage. Tsukiyomi borrows from Shiva; with most of her mechanics being rehashes of old ones we see frequently in all pieces of content. Regardless, what does Ultimate have to do with learn mechanics? If you're struggling, guides are easily available. Just because you aren't a raider doesn't mean content is magically difficult, provided you pay attention and learn from your mistakes.

But to humour your question. Shinryu and Tsuki are solid difficulties for story content. My being an Ultimate raider doesn't mean I cannot judge content.

[KisaiTenshi]

You know, if someone does savage, of course trials are going to seem easy to them, because they've had all the mechanics drilled into their heads. Surprisingly though, there are a lot of people who don't do that, and they actually tend to struggle with it. Surprising, eh? I mean, wtf are you even a judge of it, you do ultimate. What is going to seem hard to you then?

Look at who you're talking to, and which thread you're in.

The major contributory factor in what constitutes difficulty in the game is placing blame on the "it wasn't me" factor, like everyone is still a 6 year old.

Wipe? Who caused the wipe? Clearly it was the healer since "heal" is in the name, even though the boss did the enrage which is an instant KO. Why did an Enrage get hit? Not enough DPS? Which DPS was picking their nose instead of hammering on the boss? s/

The ability to record the duty... any duty, makes figuring out what is actually going on, that much easier, and thus not having to rely on external tools. Just load up the last fight, rewind it to 30 seconds before the wipe and see what everyone was doing. If you're pugging along, it still makes sense to record it, just if it's anonymized you're not going to have that information for very long since the last 50 contacts are all the game client records.

[Dualgunner]

You know, if someone does savage, of course trials are going to seem easy to them, because they've had all the mechanics drilled into their heads. Surprisingly though, there are a lot of people who don't do that, and they actually tend to struggle with it. Surprising, eh? I mean, wtf are you even a judge of it, you do ultimate. What is going to seem hard to you then?

It's almost as if, with repetition, practice, and effort, these mechanics become simple to dance around.

[RiyahArp]

It's almost as if, with repetition, practice, and effort, these mechanics become simple to dance around.

obviously not, for all the complaining you lot do about farm parties, which are practiced far more than trials. Now think what would happen if all the game were farm parties for people; that you simply couldn't do any group stuff without having to deal with abandons, people getting kicked, needing to parse everything, needing recorders to see what is going wrong, people leaving after 3 wipes, etc. That's what happens when you ask for casual content to be harder for people. I don't end up offering to switch to tank or healer in a roulette when someone leaves because we all are ok with practice and repetition for 60 creation and 10 mendacity.

The recorder in itself is kind of a thing for JP people, since they generally don't use plugins as much as NA due to language barriers. It's not useful for NA, because either we don't care at all for it or we use third party tools anyways. Thats kind of why people thought it a bit of a waste here, we arent the primary audience. There's going to be some reinventing of the wheel for the jp audience, that can't be avoided.

[Deathgiver]

The recorder in itself is kind of a thing for JP people, since they generally don't use plugins as much as NA due to language barriers. It's not useful for NA, because either we don't care at all for it or we use third party tools anyways. Thats kind of why people thought it a bit of a waste here, we arent the primary audience. There's going to be some reinventing of the wheel for the jp audience, that can't be avoided.

I feel like you're making a pretty broad assumption with no basis on facts here. I've seen way more use of callout tools and skill timer plug-ins for act on jp streams than i have on NA streams. I'm not assuming they use them more, but the tools are definitely out there in the jp community, and being used by top tier raiders.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

obviously not, for all the complaining you lot do about farm parties, which are practiced far more than trials. Now think what would happen if all the game were farm parties for people; that you simply couldn't do any group stuff without having to deal with abandons, people getting kicked, needing to parse everything, needing recorders to see what is going wrong, people leaving after 3 wipes, etc. That's what happens when you ask for casual content to be harder for people. I don't end up offering to switch to tank or healer in a roulette when someone leaves because we all are ok with practice and repetition for 60 creation and 10 mendacity.

There you go again with extreme scenarios. The game wouldn't be devoid of easier content if they implemented a better scaling difficulty. What would occur is all those players you mention who cannot get groups would have to improve or stay in content more suited towards their playstyle. Contrary to your belief, raiders aren't kicking people left and right because they can't put up orange parses. Most couldn't give a damn, so long as you're putting forth a good effort. A BLM pulling 3,400 DPS is not a good effort. If your damage is that low, what business do you have learning a weekly o6s page run?

No what they want is rewards that are actually worth it. You can search any number of raiding threads on these forums and find a bucket load of people saying raiding just isn't worth it because the gear is worthless.. that is why they don't bother...

As I said it's human philosophy
What you get out has to be worth the effort you put in or people will not do it. The same is true in virtually every aspect of human life.

Worth is entirely subjective. Implementing horizontal progression is not going to abruptly make people care more about Savage if they aren't inclined to partake in difficult content to begin with. Likewise, horizontal progression is largely the illusion of choice. Say they offered five DRG sets, all i370. Theorycrafters will determine which set is mathematically superior and that set becomes the only one people care about. I mean, look at what we have now even with our basic stats. Very rarely do you see a Skill Speed DRG build because it's generally weaker, thus people aren't interested.

Now that doesn't mean they couldn't improve on, admittedly, a very stale system. Frankly, I wouldn't mind exploding what WoW where everything you do has a chance to increase your gear's strength, albeit with less RNG focus. But none of this will make people do Savage unless they want to.

[alimdia]

People complain because they're bad and want everything made easy.

There's another situation that happened back then with Shinryu, people who queued to trial roulette for the quick tomes for 5-8 mins of effort being faced with 40 mins of wiping because other people are incapable of doing easy mechanics, repeat 2-3 times and these people will start leaving the duty as soon as it loads because it's literally not worth the time or effort to wipe with people who have no interest in learning a fight, for just a few tomestones. Those people leaving are not bad, it's just not worth the time/effort to stay with a group that has a high potential to wipe for half an hour.

Back then before the nerf of Steps of Faith it took me 3 really bad runs of people not following directions before I started abandoning the duty as soon as it loaded, I wasn't the only one doing this, this created a situation where most capable players were abandoning on sight and the people who needed a clear couldn't advance the story, and thus they had to nerf the trial or those people would remain stuck.