So about Summoner...

[Zerathor]

snip.

You fail to understand this. There are more scenarios for a blm giving 100% to wipe than a smn giving 100%. It's not entirely your input, it's how insanely stronger smn can carry a group. It's selfish to not use it unless it's just weekly clears.

Viable=/=optimal. It's viable to do god kefka with 4 rdm's 2 drk, and 2 ast. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[Zerathor]

u think I'm just pro smn

Don't worry, nobody here thinks that.

SE politics goes for casual/new gamer > veteran endgame since HW.

Seriously, what universe are you in? You must be lost, this is Final Fantasy XIV if you were unsure.

[Megguido]

snip

You can't be that extreme either. Savage and Ultimate are the content that require the most balance about jobs. Who cares that SAM is doing twice the damage of a MCH in a dungeon or against Ifrit HM ?

Though does it require almost perfect balance ? And balance cannot be perfect either. If you boost RDM damage by 500 or 600 to make it on par with SMN, you have to consider that it will be stupidly powerful at lower levels. Current RDM, sync'ed at lvl 50, is kinda the highest DPS job.

I don't say SE should balance job around low lvl. I'm saying that it's a consequence of balancing jobs at high level. The reverse reasoning can apply to SMN. Nerf its damage at lvl 70, and it might be significantly harder to play it at lvl 50, to the point leveling is a pain.

SE can't just say "Hey guys got an idea, give 500 DPS to the RDM so they're good kay ?" and be done with it.

You fail to understand this. There are more scenarios for a blm giving 100% to wipe than a smn giving 100%. It's not entirely your input, it's how insanely stronger smn can carry a group. It's selfish to not use it unless it's just weekly clears.

I think you didn't get a crucial detail. SMN isn't a very "prog-friendly" job. Their damage will suffer a lot until they know the fight. SMN excels at weekly clears, high DPS, fast runs. But on progression, a SMN will have a hard time (much like BLM I believe). The only way a SMN can carry a party is if the DPS is barely enough to pass the enrage timer. And usually, if the DPS isn't enough, it's because people died to stupid, are really undergeared, don't know a proper DPS rotation or couldn't execute it because of the mechanics. Not because you didn't bring the meta job.

So yeah, maybe I can carry a group with SMN better than with BLM, granted. Then should they balance jobs around PUGs ? Please make this job stronger so I can carry imbeciles ?

[...]All I gotta say on this topic is if you're on here whining about your class, you're probably not good enough to be in the 90th percentile anyway, so anything FFlogs says about your class doesn't apply lol. [...] I know both BLM and RDM mains that put SMN to shame on a regular basis, so never give up and blame it on class balance!

These two statements have very little value, here's why:
- Some people here are at 90th percentile. And even if we're not, there is data to prove the point. Though we must consider the sample (more people playing SMN than BLM for example). Saying "lol ur bad, git gud" isn't a valid argument.
- You know BLM and RDM that put SMN to shame I do not doubt about that. I also put SMN to shame with DRK or PLD. Doesn't mean DRK is overpowered, just means their SMN is played by someone that has no idea what they are doing.

[Zerathor]

I think you didn't get a crucial detail. SMN isn't a very "prog-friendly" job. Their damage will suffer a lot until they know the fight. SMN excels at weekly clears, high DPS, fast runs. But on progression, a SMN will have a hard time (much like BLM I believe). The only way a SMN can carry a party is if the DPS is barely enough to pass the enrage timer. And usually, if the DPS isn't enough, it's because people died to stupid, are really undergeared, don't know a proper DPS rotation or couldn't execute it because of the mechanics. Not because you didn't bring the meta job.

The only situation it's not prog friendly is if you're dying with all your stacks. Other than that, it's extremely flexible while being able to raise.

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight. Aside from that, the rotation is very straightforward.

[Megguido]

The only situation it's not prog friendly is if you're dying with all your stacks. Other than that, it's extremely flexible while being able to raise.

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight. Aside from that, the rotation is very straightforward.

You probably didn't play SMN enough then. SMN isn't extremely flexible. It is extremely mobile, yes, not flexible. Mess your DoTs timing, bahamut phase, aetherflow timing, and you wreck your entire rotation. Die at two dreadwyrm stack, and you lose two minutes of buildup. Two minutes. That's between 20 and 25% of the length of a fight. At any point of the fight, the SMN should either have aether stacks, aether trail or dreadwyrm stacks, lose any of those and you're f.cked.

Also

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight.

Clearly shows your lack of knowledge about SMN. I do not doubt about your performance and knowledge about BLM, but don't assume you know that much about SMN. Didn't you ever get rekt because you summon Bahamut when the boss decided to fly away / become untargetable ? Start your trance and get stunned / out of range / boss untargetable just before deathflare ? Your pet getting oneshot by the tankbuster so you can't summon Bahamut ? It's not just "lulz got 3 aetherstack for add phase muh AoE".

[Neela]

Don't worry, nobody here thinks that.


Seriously, what universe are you in? You must be lost, this is Final Fantasy XIV if you were unsure.

u are as embarrassing as always I never said "I'm a pro smn" I said "you think I'm pro smn con everything else" (learn to read before trying to be funny idiot :*) 2nd if u didn't even know their late HW politics yet - just stop talking there are more than enough interviews and q&as where they explicit said that they focus on new player lol and easier cls-design, thats also a point why they brought ultimate for veterans in the first place - cause everything else went way easier... but like I said veterans don't wanna hear that - another personal problem of you which u just don't realize. ^^

I thought a super hero like u already knew that... but well if you didn't get that, no wonder why you are talking so much bs in an arrogant way - its classy posing without background : /

[Zerathor]

You probably didn't play SMN enough then. SMN isn't extremely flexible. It is extremely mobile, yes, not flexible. Mess your DoTs timing, bahamut phase, aetherflow timing, and you wreck your entire rotation. Die at two dreadwyrm stack, and you lose two minutes of buildup. Two minutes. That's between 20 and 25% of the length of a fight. At any point of the fight, the SMN should either have aether stacks, aether trail or dreadwyrm stacks, lose any of those and you're f.cked.

It's true they lose a huge ammount of dps from dying due to all the set up lost, but in prog the power of a raise still outweighs this imo to get further into the fight and accelerate the learning process. Their mobility also gives them more chances to not die, so the dying shouldn't become a huge issue for a smn.

And I actually do a bit of smn and have been using it in UwU. It's really not that bad. Don't die (you're mobile enough to have no excuse to) don't let your pet get cleaved. Hold swift for raise. Push the buttons. Something like burning a cd in the wrong place and wasting it should be a mistake you only make once because you learned from it (for any job)

Unless something changes, I'll probably prog o9-12s when it comes as smn because this job is just silly.

[Zerathor]

REEEEEEEEEEEE

Ah yes, how silly of me to forget that it's Limsa ERP that is the core ballancing factor of the game. Definitely not raiding. That would be silly.

[Neela]

well like I said - still chillin in your glasshouse go on ^^

[Sunako]

Their mobility also gives them more chances to not die, so the dying shouldn't become a huge issue for a smn.

Except summoner not have any emergency heal like second wind, vercure or mana ward like other jobs. Energy drain only heal 2k hp and physic 700 and waste global on top of that. As long you dont make misstakes, dying with summoner is easier than any other job. I have had multiple situation on BLM once mana ward have saved my life.