So about Summoner...

[Zerathor]

I think you didn't get a crucial detail. SMN isn't a very "prog-friendly" job. Their damage will suffer a lot until they know the fight. SMN excels at weekly clears, high DPS, fast runs. But on progression, a SMN will have a hard time (much like BLM I believe). The only way a SMN can carry a party is if the DPS is barely enough to pass the enrage timer. And usually, if the DPS isn't enough, it's because people died to stupid, are really undergeared, don't know a proper DPS rotation or couldn't execute it because of the mechanics. Not because you didn't bring the meta job.

The only situation it's not prog friendly is if you're dying with all your stacks. Other than that, it's extremely flexible while being able to raise.

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight. Aside from that, the rotation is very straightforward.

[Megguido]

The only situation it's not prog friendly is if you're dying with all your stacks. Other than that, it's extremely flexible while being able to raise.

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight. Aside from that, the rotation is very straightforward.

You probably didn't play SMN enough then. SMN isn't extremely flexible. It is extremely mobile, yes, not flexible. Mess your DoTs timing, bahamut phase, aetherflow timing, and you wreck your entire rotation. Die at two dreadwyrm stack, and you lose two minutes of buildup. Two minutes. That's between 20 and 25% of the length of a fight. At any point of the fight, the SMN should either have aether stacks, aether trail or dreadwyrm stacks, lose any of those and you're f.cked.

Also

It seems like the only thing a smn needs to learn on a fight is if they need to hold anything for aoe if adds exist in the fight.

Clearly shows your lack of knowledge about SMN. I do not doubt about your performance and knowledge about BLM, but don't assume you know that much about SMN. Didn't you ever get rekt because you summon Bahamut when the boss decided to fly away / become untargetable ? Start your trance and get stunned / out of range / boss untargetable just before deathflare ? Your pet getting oneshot by the tankbuster so you can't summon Bahamut ? It's not just "lulz got 3 aetherstack for add phase muh AoE".

[Zerathor]

You probably didn't play SMN enough then. SMN isn't extremely flexible. It is extremely mobile, yes, not flexible. Mess your DoTs timing, bahamut phase, aetherflow timing, and you wreck your entire rotation. Die at two dreadwyrm stack, and you lose two minutes of buildup. Two minutes. That's between 20 and 25% of the length of a fight. At any point of the fight, the SMN should either have aether stacks, aether trail or dreadwyrm stacks, lose any of those and you're f.cked.

It's true they lose a huge ammount of dps from dying due to all the set up lost, but in prog the power of a raise still outweighs this imo to get further into the fight and accelerate the learning process. Their mobility also gives them more chances to not die, so the dying shouldn't become a huge issue for a smn.

And I actually do a bit of smn and have been using it in UwU. It's really not that bad. Don't die (you're mobile enough to have no excuse to) don't let your pet get cleaved. Hold swift for raise. Push the buttons. Something like burning a cd in the wrong place and wasting it should be a mistake you only make once because you learned from it (for any job)

Unless something changes, I'll probably prog o9-12s when it comes as smn because this job is just silly.

[Sunako]

Their mobility also gives them more chances to not die, so the dying shouldn't become a huge issue for a smn.

Except summoner not have any emergency heal like second wind, vercure or mana ward like other jobs. Energy drain only heal 2k hp and physic 700 and waste global on top of that. As long you dont make misstakes, dying with summoner is easier than any other job. I have had multiple situation on BLM once mana ward have saved my life.

[Zerathor]

Except summoner not have any emergency heal like second wind, vercure or mana ward like other jobs. Energy drain only heal 2k hp and physic 700 and waste global on top of that. As long you dont make misstakes, dying with summoner is easier than any other job. I have had multiple situation on BLM once mana ward have saved my life.

No emergency safety button, but you shouldn't need to worry about getting hit by anything dodgeable. Smn doesn't have to greed to not fall on its face and ruin it's rotation like blm. It can just.... dodge. Mana ward is cool, but I recall using it 9/10 times to intentionally eat something I could dodge, but I wanted to get another cast off.

[Sunako]

No emergency safety button, but you shouldn't need to worry about getting hit by anything dodgeable. Smn doesn't have to greed to not fall on its face and ruin it's rotation like blm. It can just.... dodge. Mana ward is cool, but I recall using it 9/10 times to intentionally eat something I could dodge, but I wanted to get another cast off.

I dont think mobility is good reason for dying. Sounds more like l2p issue. If you dont understand mechanics you die regardless what job you play. I just did Godka with blm this week and did not have any issue with mobility. As long you understand mechanics you can do literally same content with any job.

[Zerathor]

I dont think mobility is good reason for dying. Sounds more like l2p issue. If you dont understand mechanics you die regardless what job you play. I just did Godka with blm this week and did not have any issue with mobility. As long you understand mechanics you can do literally same content with any job.

You can, but depending where you're at it can be bad. Are you halfway through a f4 and you have to cancel? You just wasted about 400 potency. Are you at f1 or b3 and you have to move? You lost 150-200 potency as well as threw away your foul build up, so potentially another 650 potency. Not to mention slow casting a b3 or an f3 after a mistake like that. You have to gauge if you'll be able to move at the last second for some things, or lose a TON of damage (the only thing you bring)

Smn: oh boy, I lost 20p...

I'm fine with the mobility of blm, but I'd be lying if I didn't die a few times from trying to not derail my rotation. On smn, I don't even think about it, I just dodge. There's nowhere near as much reward for the risk.

[Neela]

Unless something changes, I'll probably prog o9-12s when it comes as smn because this job is just silly.

I'm bagging you for that!... if that means you will probably quit talking about a cls you are not familiar with. I can't stand those "words of wisdom" Meg already proved wrong. Bahamut at prog is just annoying and u didn't even need to die to mess up the Dragon... facing the advantages of mobility with the clunky Bahamut is really not prog-friendly, Bahamut without max stacks = flat Bahamut, Bahamut up while getting used to new mechanic = flat Bahamut, Bahamut out of raid buff windows = flat Bahamut, Bahamut up infront of downtimes = flat Bahamut. Smn simply aren't those "burst monster" you like to call them in prog. Like Meg said they face the exact same problem Blms do to be max. effectiv: knowing the exact times of mechanics and adjustments of partywide buffs as well for their burst window... after mch its the most punished burst-cls ingame. so how does this fit progression?

smn can move in payoff of pot loss yeah and they have a swiftcast res yeah... but thats all for progress, u can't count bahamut as an prog advantage, nor u can swap egis efficiently not knowing the downtimes... that alone will cut smns dps in prog kinda heavily... compared to farm/speedruns.

...but all I read from your side is "u have a raise = prog monster".... but please... that can't be your one&only major-argument... q.q


-> anyway go for smn and we can close this topic once and for all... ^^'

[Zerathor]

REEEEEEEEEEE

I'm still not entirely sure how I'm unfamiliar with it when I already play it. Why are you even trying?