How I wish Eureka was

[Remedi]

Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

Would agree if the difficulty was gordias or midas, but they've started dropping that to make it more for everyone, there's also some savage streamers that like to help ppl to get first kills. I'd say that by now savage is open enough to the point that not doing it is more of a personal choice.
On reddit there's a guy from a user that was made to essentially help ppl with starting savage even from the basic psycological aspect of it, which is something I admire, it makes me feel like the community can be helpful to one another.

[RiyahArp]

Would agree if the difficulty was gordias or midas, but they've started dropping that to make it more for everyone, there's also some savage streamers that like to help ppl to get first kills. I'd say that by now savage is open enough to the point that not doing it is more of a personal choice.

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

If were talking about Guardian and God Kefka here, well, that's the point. They're mimicking what happened with the last Savage Tier. You have the first two fights somewhat challenging to get your feet wet, they're not super easy, but they're not insanely difficult either. And then, you have the last two fights that spike up the difficulty for the ones who really want that harder challenge, especially for the weapon. Most of the Savage fights just rehash what the game already has taught you in terms of mechanics. The thing that has most people that are stuck on Guardian is Virus...because only a few people remember Allagan Rot from Coil. It also uses the "finger cursor" mechanic from Argath coupled with another mechanic that doesn't want you to move. It's all just another song & dance pattern that you need to memorize.

God Kefka's difficulty is mimicking Neo Ex-Death which is fair, you get a weapon out of the fight. It's fair to expect a stronger difficulty and a lot of effort for the best ilvl weapon so far at endgame. I don't think my static will get to God Kefka which is fine, getting through Guardian would be a surprise and achievement enough because that's more than I thought we'd get through.

But, again, the game isn't preventing you from trying Savage, only yourself by saying that you can't do it.

[RiyahArp]

If were talking about Guardian and God Kefka here, well, that's the point.

Well, no, from the scuttlebutt even 05 is a pain for many people. It's just, well, to assume even now its easy enough that people are only locked out by choice is a bit much. They made it better, but it's still overall something that doesn't really attract casuals to do, and it's hard enough to prevent friends from doing it together if they have different skill levels. It's just now it's not destroying everyone raiders and casuals alike, like Alex did.

I think they could test this by making the last fight of this tier on casual as hard as low-end savage, and I think we'd see then how skill varies among people.

[Sigma-Astra]

Well, no, from the scuttlebutt even 05 is a pain for many people. It's just, well, to assume even now its easy enough that people are only locked out by choice is a bit much. They made it better, but it's still overall something that doesn't really attract casuals to do, and it's hard enough to prevent friends from doing it together if they have different skill levels. It's just now it's not destroying everyone raiders and casuals alike, like Alex did.

Well, it's not really assuming? I'm speaking from personal experience as one of those casual players that didn't want to do Gordias, Midas, or Creator. I thought that they were insane. I still think that those fights are. But, Deltascape and Sigmascape thus far have been incredibly more easier than the past Savage tiers. And yes, you're right, the Phantom Train is a pain in the butt, it's a pain in the butt for me as well, but, it's not impossible. We got a newbie healer through it for their very first clear, got the same healer through the painting (which is significantly easier for BLM imo).

They're not super easy, but they're not super hard and impossible either. The people that choose not to do it have their own reasons and that's fine, but, to say that Savage is locking them out? How can content lock a person out when everyone with the ilvl is free to try it just to see if it's for them or not. Nothing hurts you from trying, nothing is stopping you from trying except yourself.

I'm running through Savage on BLM. I'm already severely gimping myself as it is.

[Remedi]

I don't believe this. I've seen way too much complaining about PUGs, especially 07 and up, to believe even easier savage is accessible for all. I notice a lot that people who do savage seem to really underrate their skill and overrate the easiness of content in this game, which makes it hard for them to accurately comment on how hard something is for people not in their cohort.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

Free to not believe it, but the fact is that savage is much more pug friendly than before anyway and mind you I don't mean braindead easy, the simple fact that it's even puggable in some form it's just miles better than what gordias and midas were for the raiding scene.

And about relics I'm not saying that it requires to be hard and long, imagine you get to floor 100 with pugs on potd and you get like 50 anemos crystals, you get to floor 200 solo and you get a weapon complete (ofc this is just an example because solo floor 200 is bonkers with RNG) But in short the harder the content the greater the progression the less the grind and viceversa.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Everyone is equal when it comes to relics. No one has an advantage. Feel free to dislike it of course, it's just how it's designed. I prefer the way it is. You already have a way to get better gear first, Savage.

I know how it's designed. I was explaining why I think it's BAD design. Since you don't appear willing to consider anyone else's position, how about this:

Relic weapon models are now a reward from Savage. No more glows, or unique models for Relics. You get dyeable normal mode raiding weapons now for completing relic quests.

Are you ok with this?

Anemos is stage one, the beginning of Eureka. As a base, i thought it was pretty good, lots of room to grow and expand.

While I appreciate your post - do you have any input on any of the content therein? Likes/dislikes? etc?

Considering how easy it is to be one shot in Eureka at lower levels as it is, I think it's just mean to want a constant bleed on your HP.

Low level players would have trouble getting anything done

If you get one shot, what does a bleed matter then? Low level players are fine. They grind boring mobs of equal level until they're high enough for the FATE train. My implementation wouldn't change that significantly. Not to mention, you neglected to consider the offensive/defensive benefits of the Magia board (i.e. not just base damage up/damage taken down)

I don't see how would Eureka suffer for having a harder mode. Since the zone has a punishment for death, people who couldn't deal/don't want to deal with an uptick in difficulty would still have plenty of others to play with in their default mode trains. Those who want in and out could be in and out. Those who like the current mode could enjoy themselves at their own pace.

Bingo.

guess you're just too good at the game. *shrug* you already get the good stuff by beating savage. you might as well unsub til the next raid tier.

Why make this post? What did you plan to gain? You're being nothing more than a dismissive child.

How about you actually read the OP and give some actual insight into why ideas might be good or bad, etc.

Apart from the effects carried by mobs, there doesn't seem to be quite enough depth or impact from the elements to warrant their complexity. I'd wager that using the elements alike to a generated-spent resource instead would allow for more impact during whatever events or conditions one would be looking for that impact, therefore seeing greater presentation even with the same, on average, power. I love the weather patterns, though some (such as Heatwave) seem like they could use some fleshing out for more apparent impact.

I won't lie and say I didn't struggle with some of the weather effects. However, the reason they're not super deep on their own is because of how they interact with both the mobs and the magia board. It's intended to be a deep culmination, not 3 deep systems woven together to make a trench. If that makes sense (I've been guilty in the past of over-engineering a concept)

but I don't think this addresses any of the more basic issues with Eureka, which are to me the areas of, essentially, forced dead space, mostly due to the leveling curve.
- Optimal leveling, unless NMs die very, very slowly, requires what amounts to afking, especially due to the late access to mounts. Players create dead space.
- Once NM packs are outleveled, they're generally skipped. Portions of the map become dead space.

This is intended. I've done that exercise before (remember the other thread last year?). My goal here was to take an existing content form, and add my own elements of engagement within the current design constraints without compromising the experience for players who like the current iteration.

Re: Dead Space - agreed. One thing I wanted to do was have the "treasure map" mob hunting function in ways that got you out all over the map, and not isolated to specific highly populated areas.

Yet non Savage raiders are left out of Savage. (It's too hard for them often enough.)

Raiders have one thing, everyone else has something else. Simple.

You're looking at this from an extremely one dimensional perspective, frankly, it's incredibly dismissive of actual discussion and juvenile.

Non raiders are not left out of savage just like raiders aren't left out of earning relics.

I asked you earlier and you ignored it so I will ask again.

What do YOU lose by me completing my relic in a different manner. Tell me specifically what pain points and issues you are faced with as a result of my accrual.

Theory crafting like this is fun and all but with the content already basically set in stone, I doubt they will take any of these ideas into account. They may already have plans for some of this stuff, if so, excellent, you have a few neat ideas. If not, well I hope you arent setting your expectations based on this being implemented, if so I'm willing to bet you will be disappointed.

Correct - I do these types of things to make work go by more quickly when it's slow. They're not calls to change the game, they're merely for fun what ifs based on flaws I PERSONALLY find in the game.

As for making relics harder, I really don't think hard + long grind will be nice for many people. Making them more involved...idk, that just makes people rely on third party guides really.

Did you read the entire OP? Y/N?

If you did I'm not sure where you got the idea of me trying to make the relics harder. I'm offering a different AVENUE for skilled players to have some fun inside Eureka and still work towards accruing their relic. The existing experience wouldn't change much for anyone who likes the current iteration.

Did you have any input into any of the concepts in the OP? Good? Bad? Things you like? Things you didn't?

After seeing Eureka I would have rather gotten a relic similar to HW. Even using the older one to skip the fate step. Because when all is said and done the current step for the level 70 is just glorified fate grinding.
Besides the older relics could be done while doing others things too. Like helping friends or others complete their dungeon runs, farming mounts, or just roulettes.
Now it is pointless because the tome gear is extremely easy to get. i330 gear, even the weapon takes no time to get. And Eureka gear isn't really all that much better. and i360 only takes time because of the weekly cap.

Did you maybe have any insight into the concept I posted in the OP? Was there anything you liked? Anything you didn't?